Zander Fryer | Grow as a Person, Grow Your Business

Zander Fryer of High Impact Coaching shares a hard truth. If you want to build a six- or seven-figure business, and you’re not there yet… it’s because you’re not good enough. If you were, you’d already be there. 

But, adds, Zander you can become good enough by picking up the right skills, mindsets, habits, and knowledge you need. By growing as a person, you can grow your business.

One of his techniques involves, every day, thinking of the one thing that scares you the most… and doing it. Zander gets into detail on that, as well as…

  • The biggest difference between successful people and those that are perpetually stuck
  • Why you must always challenge yourself – and how to do it even when you’re “successful”
  • If you’re not doing this… nothing else matters
  • The dangers of a trying to create “perfect” product or service
  • And more

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Steve Gordon: Welcome to the Unstoppable CEO Podcast. I’m your host, Steve Gordon, and today we got an absolutely outstanding interview for you. I am talking today with Zander Fryer. He is the best selling author and internationally renowned speaker behind High Impact Coaching. And he got there after quitting his successful corporate career at age 27, so really young, and launched High Impact coaching.

And he launched that to inspire and empower entrepreneurs to build successful businesses and add value to the world at the same time. And when he did that, he went from zero to six figures in three months and then seven figures in 12 months. His training now impacts over 50,000 people in 22 different countries and more than 300 different organizations around the world. Zander, welcome to the Unstoppable CEO.

Zander Fryer: Yeah, thanks for having me, Steve. Excited to be here.

Steve: Yeah, this is gonna be a lot of fun. There’s a lot to dig into. So before we kind of get into the meat of things, give everybody a little bit more of your background. What got you to this stage of your career?

Zander: Oh, that is, how far back can we go? Do we go like kindergarten? Or I think

Steve: Whatever you think’s relevant.

Zander: So just to give kind of like a brief overview of the story, you know, I’m an engineer by nature I was, when I was growing up, I was really good at math and sciences. So when I went to, I went to UCLA and I went there for an engineering degree. But to pay for college, I joined Air Force ROTC so always been passionate about the military, always been passionate about leadership.

And that kind of gave me an opportunity to learn a lot from the Air Force, as well as obviously pay for my education, which was great. But it was while I was in the Air Force that I really found my first passion, which was mentoring and coaching and leading people. So I was actually going to be a leader in the military. And then I was going to fly fighter planes, actually had my pilot slot.

And my senior year, I actually got a DUI. So I made a really dumb decision of having three beers and driving home, got pulled over at a checkpoint, and got a DUI. I was kicked out of the Air Force. You know, 22-year-old kid who had the next 20 years of his life planned completely changed in one decision that I made. So that was kind of a jarring experience for me as a 22-year-old. So I did what any 22-year-old lost kid would do. I took all this experience and all this excitement and motivation, and I bottled it up and took it to the corporate world.

So I had my engineering degree. I went and worked for Cisco Systems for the next six years as a systems architect. So I was designing networks for companies like Disney, Facebook, Verizon, you know, all these big names. But I kind of had what, you know, I had those golden handcuffs. I had that life that everybody told me was like, successful, right? I was making great money. I was making over $200,000 a year.

I was working with amazing clients. I was living in Venice Beach, driving around in a BMW as a kid in his mid-20s, like you mentioned. I had what everyone told me was successful, but I never really like, I’ve never felt successful. I felt empty, right? I felt like I was making the money and like, I had the title. I was like, why am I not happy and fulfilled with what I’m doing? So after a very intense conversation with one of my mentors, I actually decided to quit my job cold turkey. So I called up my manager one Monday morning and basically just said, Frank, I’m done.

And he was like, Well, what the hell? What do you mean, you’re done? Where are you going? And I was like, I don’t know but I know that this isn’t it. So I quit my job cold turkey. No idea what I was doing. But I decided that I had to go figure it out. And so that’s kind of like how I got to the point of becoming an entrepreneur. I’ve been an entrepreneur for just about four years now. But it really was, you know, making that decision to like, go out on my own and become that entrepreneur that really changed everything.

Now, a lot of people always think like, Oh, you made such great money, you had all this money saved up so that’s why you were able to, you know, get your business to six figures so quickly. You could spend a bunch of money and all this stuff. I always have to remind people like, I’m a millennial, I don’t know if you noticed. What do millennials do? Do they save their money? No, right? So I had spent every dime that I had saved up. And when I quit my job, I had about three months of living expenses saved up which I spent all within the first 30 days and then I racked up credit card debt like all of us entrepreneurs do and we’re first starting off.

I racked up about $25,000 worth of debt over the course of the first three months learning from every mentor, every program, every mastermind that I can be a part of, really because for me, the one thing that I realized, the one resource that was more important than money for me was my time, right? And I didn’t want to spend another moment not being on purpose with my mission and everything that I was doing. So I quit my job to start a quote-unquote life coaching business, which, you know, a ton of people do.

The difference is that, you know, I always tell people, between me and 95% of life coaches is I actually figured out how to make money, right? And I think as business owners, you know, we can never beat around the bush when it comes to the fact that like, your business cannot survive without cash flow, right? So as long as we want to be conscious and, you know, we want to go save the world and we want to go do a socially impactful businesses, but your business cannot succeed and have an impact if you do not bring in cash, right?

And I think that was one of the biggest learning lessons that I had. And my third month in business, I actually was able to bring in 13K in cash. And then the next month was 17K, then it was 24K and 32K. And so was able to start to scale the business up very rapidly from there. But that’s kind of how we got going. Over the first year, we got to seven figures. Now I’ve got a team of I think 12. We’re set to do somewhere between three to 4 million this year. And I’m just loving it. So that’s my story.

Steve: That’s awesome. You don’t know this, we didn’t talk about it ahead of time and I didn’t really know your backstory and all that you described but we’ve been on a parallel path, except I’m probably about 20 years ahead of you. So I too, am a recovering engineer and a product of Air Force ROTC

Zander: Really?

Steve: Oh, yeah. And really valued the leadership training that I got out of it. And I took the chance to bounce out after a medical issue in college. And so yeah, you’re sitting here describing I’m going, Oh, yeah, I know that story. Yeah. Pretty interesting. Yeah. But, you know, what’s really interesting and what I’d love to dig into a little bit because there are a lot of people listening who have been in business for more than three months and haven’t gotten their personal income above that six-figure level.

There are people listening who have been in business for more than 12 months and some more than 12 years and haven’t gotten revenue over that seven-figure mark. And I’m curious to kind of have a conversation around the things that you felt like were really impactful. What contributed to you having that kind of rapid success?

Are You Good Enough? Do You Desire to Become Good Enough?

Zander: So the two, there’s two things that immediately come to mind. The first thing, so the first thing is like, I’m a huge self-development junkie, obviously being in the coaching space. The first thing, and this was a very harsh realization that I had, when I first quit my job. I actually, I was lucky enough to have a mentor tell me, everything you’ve learned in the corporate world means nothing as an entrepreneur. And I’m sure, Steve, you’re fully aware of this, but like, everything that we learned to be successful in the corporate world does not translate to being successful as an entrepreneur. And he openly said that to me.

He said, in fact, a lot of what you learn in the corporate world will be detrimental to you as an entrepreneur. It will actually hold you back from becoming a successful entrepreneur.I was really lucky to get this coaching, this mentorship as I was starting my, you know, my adventure, if you will. And so really, the way that I stepped into my coaching business was accepting the fact that no matter what I’d done before, right now, I, this sounds really harsh to anybody who’s in the personal development space, I was not good enough.

And I mean that in the nicest way, right? So for everybody out there, if you’re not at six figures, if you’re not at six figures and you want to get to six figures, if not at seven figures and you want to get to seven figures, I don’t mean this to be a dick, frankly, I mean, this because it’s true, you’re not good enough. But that’s okay because you can become good enough, right? The truth is, if we were good enough, we would already be there.

And that was probably one of the most important things that I learned right from the very beginning was I had to accept the fact that I was not good enough as an entrepreneur, as a leader as all those things to deserve a six-figure or seven-figure business yet. I set out to build a seven-figure business in a year. I set out to do this and I had to accept the fact that I was not good enough for that because if I was good enough, if I had all the skills, if I had all the habits, if I had all the mindsets, if I knew, if I had all the knowledge and I knew exactly what to do, I would have already done it.

So the first step for me was accepting the fact that I was not good enough, but realizing that that was not necessarily a bad thing because I could become good enough. Now, if I could become good enough, the next question became How do I become good enough, right? And this is Jim Rohn saying all this, says, you know, like, if you want to have more, you have to become more, right? And to become more that means we have to grow as people. What causes growth, right?

Stretching yourself, pushing yourself, getting yourself out of your comfort zone, right? I think of like, you know, if you think of like someone, a bodybuilder in the gym, how did they build muscle, right? They have to stress the muscle, they have to put tension on the muscle over and over and over again to grow that muscle. It’s the same thing with our mindset. It’s the same thing with our abilities and our skills. We have to push ourselves, stretch ourselves in order to become bigger and better.

So when I started my coaching business when I first quit my job, I literally had, I had one thing that was probably the most important thing to me getting where I wanted to get to at such, in such a short amount of time, I had something I called my big cohones action. And what it was, was every day, I would think of the one thing that scared me the most. It didn’t even have to be business-related. It could be, it could have been an issue with my family or my significant other. It could be something that just personally made me cringe and I was afraid to do, right?

Whatever the one thing was that scared me the most I would go do, right?Now sometimes it was business-related. Sometimes it was, you know, asking for more money. Sometimes it was, you know, in the very beginning, like you’re picking to do the one thing that I had no idea what I was doing and getting it out there too soon, right? And making a mistake and messing it up and looking like an idiot, right?

But in other times it was having a very difficult conversation with someone who is now my ex, right? Having a conversation with a close friend that I’ve been friends with for years and basically telling them that I didn’t want to be friends with them anymore, right? These were really uncomfortable things. But every time I made an uncomfortable, I took an uncomfortable courageous action that I knew served me and served my bigger purpose, I grew as a person.

And a lot of these actions built up in terms of my confidence and my ability to be a leader in general, but also as a business owner. So that was really like, it’s weird to say, but that was probably one of the most important things that I did when I was first starting my businesses. I would literally do all the things that made me uncomfortable because I knew if I did all the things that made me uncomfortable, I would grow faster and I would become that person that deserved a six and seven-figure business faster than anybody else. So that’s number one.

Steve: Yeah. Well, I want to, just before we go beyond that, just because there’s a lot just in that to unpack. It’s interesting. I’m in a mastermind group right now. And this is one of the things that we’re all focused on right now. Like we, we’re all a little bit crazy and we, you know, shared with each other the one area that we feel like is most uncomfortable, most kind of outside that comfort zone, and really took some time to identify that. And, you know, and now, each of us is attacking whatever that area is. It’s really interesting to watch what happens as you do that.

And, you know, having observed, I mean, we’ve worked with all kinds of clients over the last 10 years that I’ve been doing this and that is the one thing that separates the people that are very successful from the ones that are perpetually stuck is this, exactly what you described, is this, this willingness and kind of a commitment to go for the thing that makes you feel really uncomfortable, you know? It’s, and I love the way you describe it like a muscle because I really think it is. You increase your capacity to do things that are uncomfortable and that’s always what’s required to get to the next level.

Zander: Yeah. And I think it’s more important now than ever. Like, obviously, we’re a totally weird place in the economy right now where like over the last four months, with unemployment going up, entrepreneurship is going up as well, right? And as entrepreneurship is going up, well, there aren’t the normal brick and mortar spaces for everybody to go start a job or start a business in, right?

So everybody’s flocking to the online space. So there’s more competition in the online entrepreneurial space than there has ever been before, right? And so that’s something to be, like what you just mentioned, to be very aware of is like the people who are willing, not only willing to get uncomfortable, but actually seeking to get uncomfortable, they’re going to be the ones that find their space in this new economy.

And so like the thing that I’m reminding everybody right now is like if you’re not willing to like step up and get uncomfortable right now, there’s 30 other people that are now coming into your field, ready to step in and take your place. So as entrepreneurs, we constantly have to be adapting and learning and growing, getting out of our comfort zone and getting better because it’s the, I think it’s a Howard Thurman quote, he says, learners will inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves perfectly equipped for a world that no longer exists. So it’s like, we can’t ever stop doing that.

Steve: Well, and I think that’s a perfect point is that you never get to a point in your business where you can sort of coast on this. There’s always the next thing to pursue, which is, it’s not going to be within the habits that you currently have. And by definition, you’re going to get uncomfortable around it. You know, I’m not a millennial, okay?

You can tell, we’re on video so you can tell by probably looking at the color of my hair and the wrinkles on my face, I’m not a millennial. So, you know, I’ve been doing this for a long time, this is my second business. And even now, I’m going through this exercise with this group of colleagues. And, you know, it’s really challenging, you know? And I think at every level, it is challenging. But

Zander: Yeah, and that’s, I think that’s the point, right? It’s like, it doesn’t matter what level you’re at. If it’s not challenging, then you’re doing it wrong.

Steve: Exactly. And I think that’s what I really wanted to bring out in all of this is that no matter where you’re at in your career, you need to be looking for that thing that is kind of outside your current sphere because that’s where the growth is going to come from. That’s where the, you know, not just the personal growth, but the business growth is going to come from. And so I’m so glad you pointed that out. So I know we kind of went down a rabbit trail there, but what else do you think, I mean, that’s a huge point but what else contributed to your success?

Ready, Fire, Aim

Zander: Yeah, I think I think that, you know, like, at the core, it’s like, without that, all the other stuff wouldn’t have happened, right? It’s like, if I hadn’t committed to like actively saying, like, I am committed to saying, I am not good enough and I have no idea what I’m doing and I have to commit to learning, growing, getting out of my comfort zone and just messing up. But if I hadn’t done that, nothing else would have worked. The second thing that’s kind of more tactical, that I would say, a good friend and mentor of mine, his personal mentor is Mark Ford, who wrote the book Ready, Fire, Aim.

I don’t know if you’ve heard of Ready, Fire, Aim but one of my favorite lessons in Ready, Fire, Aim and he taught, again, he taught this to me from a young age, or from a young entrepreneurial age, I should say, within my first six months, and something I had already aligned with. So one of the things Mark Ford says, and he’s built, you know, something like two dozen eight-figure nine-figure businesses.

One of the things that he says is, he says, until you’re at the half-million dollars to seven-figure mark, as a business owner, we always want to focus on perfecting the product and we always work on perfecting the service and making it great. And he’s like, but frankly, none of that matters if you’re not selling. 80% of your focus, until you’re at the point where you’re bringing in half million to seven figures of revenue a year, 80% of your focus needs to be focused on sales and sales-related activities. If you’re not selling, nothing else matters, right?

And a lot of people think that, a lot of people think, well, I got to get the product, you know, I got to get the product perfect before I’m really, I really put some work behind the selling. It’s like, you don’t know what a perfect product is until you’ve sold it to a bunch of people and they tell you what’s wrong with it, right? You don’t get to a version two of it until you sold version one and you’ve gotten a ton of feedback. And now you know, what makes a great version to, right?

And that’s one of the things that Mark Ford said, he talks about is he really puts the emphasis on like, you know, we all aspire like, I’m a coach, and I teach coaches how to build businesses, right? So we’ve helped, you know, hundreds of coaches build six-figure, multi six-figure and seven-figure businesses but the biggest problem that I see with coaches is they come in and they have so much expertise from a coaching standpoint, they have so much expertise in their space, right?

But they haven’t spent a fraction of the energy at becoming an expert in selling and lead generation that they need to. You have to become an expert and a master at sales and lead generation before you ever get the opportunity to coach people. And I think a lot of people miss that, right? It’s like your product, your service does not get into the hands of people unless you are top-notch at sales first.

Steve: Yeah, it’s interesting. I think it’s a particular problem with experts. Whether they’re coaches or any other kind of expert because you have to spend so much time and energy gaining that expertise, you know? particularly

Zander: Years. Decades.

Steve: Well, and I mean, if you go back to your engineering background, my engineering background, I mean, you know, there was four years of college. You know, for me to practice, I had to get licensed by the state so there was four years of apprenticeship and then there was an examination and, you know, so all of that leads you to believe that the most important thing is the craft. And the craft is important but at the end of the day, your clients aren’t qualified to evaluate if you’re any good at what you do or not.

Zander: Yeah, I love that.

Steve: They aren’t. They can’t tell, you know? The wrapper looks the same from the outside/ You look exactly the same as every other coach or consultant or expert. So that, you’re absolutely right. The thing that will differentiate you is your ability to market and sell what you do. It’s difficult, I think, to convey this sometimes to people that you really don’t, it’s one thing to get the certifications and get the qualifications. It’s totally different to apply that to 100 clients.

Zander: I think, and I think that’s the most important thing that people need to understand. I had, we had a client of ours who was a chiropractor and he was a chiropractor and then he went and spent two years getting different certifications and different, like methodologies of how-to, you know, help people overcome injuries and all this stuff, right?

And literally, like you’re phenomenal at learning what he should be delivering but he didn’t get a single client during that time period. He quit his chiropractic job and he almost put himself, he almost bankrupt himself, right? And when he first started working with us, I literally said, You are not allowed to do a single other course, you’re not allowed to do a single certification and if you don’t get your first client within the first three weeks of working with us, I’m kicking you out. I actually like, I don’t care, you have to get a client.

Now, he ended up enrolling, I think he enrolled like two or three clients in like a couple of months while working with us and by the end of that, basically, like I had a conversation with him and he said, I’ve learned more in two months about what it takes to get in this space than I have in the last 10 years. And it’s simply what he was saying exactly what you mentioned, like you could read the book on how to become a professional swimmer all you want but until you jump in the pool and start floundering a little bit, you’re never going to learn how to swim.

Steve: So when you’re working with your clients, what are the, okay, I’m gonna give you a loaded question. What’s the secret? What’s the marketing and sales secret that gets them results?

Zander: That’s a great question. So you actually asked two questions there. What is the secret and what is the marketing and sales secret? These are actually, I’m going to give you two different answers. The secret that I would say and whether or not people want to admit this or not, what allows us to get results with our clients, we’ve got, in my opinion, we have the best sales and marketing tactics out there but that’s not what allows us to get the results. What allows us to get the results is to unprogram people, right? So this kind of goes back to what I was talking about earlier. Like, do you know what percent of our brain is our subconscious?

Steve: No, I don’t know it offhand. What is it?

Reprogramming Your Subconscious

Zander: So it’s 95% of our brain. 95% of our brain is our subconscious mind. And it dictates between 90 and 95% of our actions. Now, that 95% of our brain, and you’ll appreciate this as an engineer, is just like a computer. Programmable, right? Except we’ve spent, you know, the last 20, 30, 40, 50 years being programmed by media, by culture to behave a certain way.

And for most people, and they’ve actually done studies on this, it’s something like 86, 87% of people have actually been programmed in a way that would prevent them from being successful as an entrepreneur. So while there’s a lot of people who want to become entrepreneurs, 87% of them or whatever, 85 to 87% of them are actually programmed in a way that they can’t be successful.

I could give you the perfect recipe and you would still mess it up because you’ve been subconsciously programmed to avoid something. I think of it like if I gave you the recipe to bake a cake but you were programmed to hate eggs, right? You’d start baking the cake and you go eggs, oh, screw those, and you throw them out. And you put the cake together and you put it in the oven and you won’t even notice it. You put it in the oven, you pull it out and it’d be a big ball of mush. You’re like, but I followed the recipe perfectly. Like No, you didn’t. You didn’t do the eggs and that’s a binding agent.

You have to have that for the cake or the business to work, right? So what allows us to work so well is like, again, this kind of goes back to like, we actually have to reprogram people to become successful entrepreneurs. Like, we have to break down your past programming and reprogram you with the right stuff to be successful as an entrepreneur because as you know, it’s very different than when you’re in a nine to five. So what’s the secret sauce? It’s the reprogramming of that 95% of your brain. Now, what’s the secret sauce from a marketing and sales perspective?

Steve: Well, before we go there, I want to ask you a question about this reprogramming of the subconscious because I’m gonna play devil’s advocate a little bit. You know, you hear this stuff often talked about in very, very loose terms.

And, you know, since we’re both technical, we probably both want to bring it down to sort of the practical, executable level where you’re reprogramming somebody, I mean, obviously, you’re not like, you know, plugging the cable into their ear. What are the things that begin to make the difference? So if somebody’s listening to this, and they want to start exploring, what’s maybe a first step or two that they can take along that path?

Zander: Yeah, so really, so the way that I always explained the subconscious, the subconscious is, it’s pretty simple. The subconscious is programmed by two things, repetition and emotion. That’s it, right? Now, if you think about it, perfect example. Steve, do you remember where you were when you found out about 911?

Steve: Yes.

Zander: So what was happening when you found out about 911?

Steve: It was a lot of disbelief.

Zander: Yeah, where were you?

Steve: I was actually at work. I was at the office. I mean, this is back before, you know, YouTube and live streaming video. So we had to pull out of a closet at the office a little portable, I think it was like a 12-inch black and white TV to see what was happening.

Zander: Yeah. So now, were you thinking about that moment before I just pulled that from your subconscious?

Steve: No.

Zander: No. But that moment was so emotional for you, you can literally remember pulling out the remote and like all of it, you can remember all the nitty-gritty details of that moment, because it was so highly emotional, right? Now, these highly emotional situations have been programming us all the way since we were three years old, even.

It’s scientifically proven right around the age of two and a half or three, these programs actually start to stick a little bit. And between the ages of three and eight, there’s a lot of things that happen between the ages of three and eight that create permanent programs that are, you know, things that you are now like six-year-old Steve is now running your life, right?

And so the way that I always like to talk about it, right, there’s these very emotional things that happen. So 911, this is like a crazy, unbelievable life or death type situation going on. So you will forever remember the depth of that moment. Now, if you’ve lost a loved one, anybody who’s listening to this who’s lost a loved one, I don’t care how old you are, how experienced you are, you lose a loved one and it affects you deeply, emotionally.

Again, life or death situation. Now go back to when you were three to eight years old. Anything could be a life or death situation, right? And it can program you. So I want to give you an example of something that happened to me as I started to delve into programming. So there isn’t really, by the way, you asked like the easiest way to do this, there isn’t really a perfect way to do it and there isn’t really an easy way to do it. You have to learn how to do this stuff.

But for example, what’s something that happened to me when I was five years old, and I did this through, this is a process that we teach, it’s called our barrier breakthrough process. It’s basically delving into the subconscious about these moments that you had, you are not thinking of, you are not remembering, but pulling out these moments and seeing how they actually programmed you to behave a certain way.

So when we did a barrier breakthrough session with me and what we found was at five years old, I was, my mom had asked me to go clean the leaves and like, rake the leaves in the front yard or something like that. Normal chore for a kid. But my dad had just had the sprinklers on so the leaves were all wet. So of course, as a very intelligent five-year-old, I wanted to wait for the leaves to dry. Now as a five-year-old, are you really good at communicating this?

Not really. So when my mom asked me to go rake the leaves, how did I respond? No, right? Like rather than mother, I think that I would like to wait about 30 minutes for the leaves to dry. It would make this much easier. You don’t know how to do that at five years old. So I told my mom No. She says Don’t be a brat. Go rake the leaves. I go No. She goes Zander, I’m going to tell you this one more time. Go rake the leaves or I’m going to tell your father, right? And that’s like, Whoa, you don’t want them to tell dad.

So I literally bolt. I run away cuz I’m so upset and I run into the bathroom and I slam the door behind me and I actually break the bolt on the door and it locks me in the bathroom. And so exactly, as an adult, I look at this, and I’m like that is hilarious. As a five-year-old kid, I thought I was going to run out of air. I actually thought I was going to die and I started freaking out and I started pounding on the door and yelling for my parents. And I literally had a life or death moment as a five-year-old kid. Now obviously, I’m not actually going to die.

But when you’re in that heightened state of emotion, you’re programming your brain in very, I had a great upbringing. A great mom, a great dad, a great family. We weren’t wealthy by any means. Like I had to pay for my own college, I had a job growing up, but it wasn’t like we were poor, right? So I couldn’t have asked for more in my upbringing. But there’s these weird moments that you don’t realize how they’re programming you.

And for me, when that happened, I had made, I had programmed myself to think if I push for my way, even if I know I’m right, something life-threatening happened. And that led me to be a people pleaser throughout my life. Throughout my life, if somebody had a difference of opinion than me, I would make sure that they got their way because if I didn’t let them get their way, my subconscious was afraid that I would die, right? And it’s that five-year-old version of Zander had run my life all the way up to like 30 years old, right?

And as an entrepreneur, right, if we know something needs to happen, is it a good habit to let somebody else take the reins if we know this is the way that it needs to be done? No, right? That’s a terrible idea. You can’t be a pushover as an entrepreneur. So it’s these types of programming that we all have hundreds of these little programs that have happened over the course of years and even decades, that these are the things that are floating around in that 95% of our brain that we’re not even conscious of.

And that’s what leads us to behaving, so many of us, like, I like, everybody out there listening in podcast land, I guarantee there’s something that you’re like, I know, I need to do this. I know I need to do this thing and I just can’t. And that’s the only way you can explain it. I know I need to do this. But for some weird reason, I just can’t and I can’t explain why. Chances are, it’s a subconscious programming that is literally preventing you from just taking that simple, very easy action step.

Steve: So, it really sounds like the very first step is to become mindful of these things.

Zander: 100% Yeah, you start off with just being conscious and aware of it and realizing that we’ve all been brainwashed

Steve: By ourselves, right?

Zander: By ourselves and by things that don’t like, that’s not even a bad thing that happened. It’s pretty funny if you think about it. But it’s a very negative program for you moving forward in life.

Steve: So as you get people through that, obviously, you want to get them doing some sales and marketing. I know everybody’s dying to hear what you’re gonna share that got you seven figures with sales and marketing. So what are some of the tactics that you guys find to be most effective right now?

You Only Need a Few

Zander: Two things that I always tell people when it comes to lead generation and sales. It’s, so it’s what we call start from the top in sales. And it’s a principle we call intimacy over authority in lead generation. You can kind of guess what they mean, but I’ll just explain what they mean. So from a sales standpoint, I’m a big fan of what I call starting from the top. And what this means is starting from the highest value that you know, you are worth, right?

There’s so many entrepreneurs that start at like very low barrier products or low value and they compare them to other people. And so one of the things that I did when I first started my business, I hired a mentor, I paid him, we’ll just tell everybody, I paid him $12,000. It was my first time that I put myself into credit card debt for this mentor. And he taught me a bunch of online strategies from like, 2012, around like building an email list and having an opt-in and doing a $97 product and a $17 ebook.

And all this stuff that like, frankly, I was sitting there thinking like, I am incredibly capable with what I do. I know what I do is worth thousands of dollars, coaching in expert space. I know what I do is worth thousands of dollars. And I had learned while working at Cisco, so when I was at Cisco the year before I had a quote of $130 million. Now, if I want to hit a quota of $130 million, am I gonna go chase every 10K deal or every 100K deal and have to rack up like 10,000 of those to hit the $130 million quota?

No. I’m gonna go work with the big boulders. I’m going to go work with Disney and I’m going to get a $30 million pop at Disney and I’m going to go work with Facebook, and I’m going to get a $40 million pop at Facebook. I’m going to do three or four of the 50 or 100 million dollars, and they’ll blow my number out the water, right? And so what I realized I was like, Okay, I need to get to six figures fast because frankly, I’m out of money. I don’t have anything saved up.

I need to get to six figures within the next three to four months I was at a point where I was two weeks away from not being able to pay rent. And so I was like I need to get to six figures fast. I don’t have any other choice, right? And I realized that what I was doing as a coach was highly valuable. I knew that it was worth more than $97 for a product, right? And so rather than trying to do like a low-end product or charge 100 bucks an hour, I went straight for the top, like high ticket, right?

And I charged what I knew I was really worth. So my first client that I ever enrolled was $2700. The next one I enrolled was 3500 bucks. The next one that I enrolled was 4500 bucks. The next one was 6K, right? And the very beginning, I knew that what I had was extremely valuable. I just needed to learn how to communicate it in a way that so that they understood how valuable it was for them. And this is the biggest problem that most people have is that for people get the value rather than helping people understand the value.

But the principle behind that is number one, you got to start from a high, like, the higher end because if you go lower end, this is why so many people are at, like you mentioned, they’ve been working for a year or two years and they’re, maybe they’re not at the six-figure level. It’s because they’re working at really low margins, really low product levels, and you have to sell hundreds or thousands of these consistently to be able to bring in anything more than coffee money, right?

But for me, I just had to enroll three clients. Now, I can have conversations with 10 people and enroll three clients month in and month out super easily. It’s much, much harder for me to sell 100 $97 courses because now I have to get to 1000 different people, if 10% buy if to get to 10,000 people if 1% buy, right? To sell this $97 course now, starting my business, I just don’t have the volume, right?

So that’s the, from a standpoint, we do something called selling, starting from the top. And so like, kinda like I mentioned with, you know, our client that we’re working with, right? His first call to me was 3K rather than, you know, 90 bucks an hour, 100 bucks an hour or something. So he was able to start bringing in a six-figure income in couple of months. Now, the other part of this that we bring up, something we call intimacy over authority.

But again, though, when you’re first starting your business, you don’t have a big brand, you don’t have a big audience, right? So you don’t have a ton of people that you’re working with. But one of the things that I tell everybody is in the modern world, in, you know, we’re in a world we’re quote, unquote, more connected than ever. At the same point, we’re also more disconnected than ever, right? People crave human connection and actual intimacy.

And I think this is something we’ve noticed even more during like all the lockdowns, right? And so what I realized is people want to buy from people they have an intimate relationship with. So if you can build a close relationship, an actual caring relationship getting, actually giving a shit about people. There’ll be people that want to buy from you over all the, you know, all the big gurus that are putting tons of money into Facebook ads and all that stuff, right? So right now, we’ll make maybe $300,000 and we did that all without a single dollar and ad spend. That is crazy to most people, right?

But we did that entire thing without spending any money on ads because we build intimate relationships with people to actually help, number one, for us to understand them so that we can understand their problems, and number two, really figure out the solution with them. And yeah, if they want to work with us to help make sure they get to that solution, we’re happy to do that. But it’s about building intimate relationships, not just trying to be everything, and I’ll put some money into ads and automate this and automate that and automate this, people want to buy from people who actually care. So those are our secrets.

Steve: Right. Well, I think, I’m so glad you brought that up because I see a lot of people being drawn to this promise. It’s like a siren song of automation and push-button sales and, you know, all this stuff. And it’s great if you can make that work.

But I’ve been doing this long enough, I’ve been behind the scenes have enough very successful clients who have had all of the resources that you could want. I mean, yeah, in one case, literally, we hired probably one of the best copywriters in the world and the campaign flopped, right? And it had nothing to do with the copy. It was just, you know, there were other fundamental challenges with it. But it’s difficult to make some of these things work.

And I keep coming back to, one of the reasons we, you know, we focus so much on podcasts as a marketing tool because we think it’s a great relationship builder. You can get virtually anybody on the phone. And, you know, whether you use that method or another one, finding ways to get in conversation to get in relationship and be able to do a lot of that, that absolutely accelerates things. And selling it high ticket makes it all possible because you don’t need, you know, as you said, you only need maybe three or four sales in a month to do pretty well.

Build Real Relationships

Zander: Yeah, well, I think that’s the thing, right? There’s, like, you mentioned, that dream vision of just like, you know, I’ll put 100 bucks in here and it’ll pop out as 1000 bucks over here, that may have worked like five years ago. But now that everybody’s caught wind of it and everybody’s trying to do that, like, it’s not a secret anymore, right? Like, I’m not just, everybody’s got their defense mechanisms up.

Like, they, like, when I see a Facebook ad, I’m not just thinking, like, God, I’m not gonna pay you a bunch of money right now. It’s like, no, there’s 11 more of those coming through, you know, later today. So I’m not in any rush with you specifically, right? And what really makes the difference how you step in front of that Facebook ad and you step in front in line there is you build a real relationship with someone, right?

One of my favorite quotes from John D. Rockefeller, he says, if you want to scale, do the things that don’t scale, right? And that’s essentially what this is. It’s like, you know, it’s our willingness to, like, do the stuff to build a real relationship and not try and, you know, like, scale this to the moon. To actually do what matters to people, right? And that’s going to be what allows us to scale and get to more people rather than trying to find the easy way, the magic bullet, the whatever it is, you want to call it, right?

Steve: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Well. This is been fantastic. I know we could probably go on for hours having this conversation because I think you and I both are pretty passionate and excited about the topic. But I know your time is precious. So, if folks want to learn more about the work that you’re doing, where’s the best place for them to go and connect with you?

Zander: Yeah, so you can go to So you can just go check us out on our website. We’ve got a couple of freebies on there. If you want to reach out to me personally, just reach out to me at or follow me on Instagram at Zander Fryer.

Steve: Perfect. Well, thanks for investing some time with me today. We’ll link all that stuff up in the show notes so folks can find you. And it’s been a lot of fun. I’m glad we connected.

Zander: Perfect. Thanks, Steve.

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