Susan Lassiter-Lyons | Never Put the Money “Back” Into the Business

Susan Lassiter-Lyons, founder and publisher of TheIncomeInvestors.com, was all about real estate, even after the 2008 crash. But then she came to a realization that she had all her eggs in one basket. 

So, she decided to diversify and seek out new opportunities to ensure the money she was making was effectively working for her. 

Along the way, she discovered that reinvesting all her money back into her business was by far not the best model. And she could find much better returns… and still grow her company. Even better she’s found a way to create passive income that means she doesn’t have to work if she doesn’t want to.

We take a deep dive into that, as well as…

  • The absolute best trait of any entrepreneur
  • Why your next step doesn’t ever have to be a giant leap
  • The 80-15-5 Bucket Investment Strategy 
  • How to build an “Anti-Fragile” Portfolio
  • And more

Mentioned in this episode:

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Transcript

Welcome to the Unstoppable CEO Podcast. I’m your host, Steve Gordon, and we’ve got, I think, a different and very powerful interview for you today. We’re going to be talking about money, but we’re going to be talking about money from a very different angle. I think you’re going to get a lot out of this interview.

 

Today, I’m talking with Susan Lassiter-Lyons. Susan is an investor. She’s a serial entrepreneur and author and an investment coach. She’s the publisher and founding editor of theincomeinvestors.com, and cannavestorlab.com, and she’s just had an incredibly long career helping people become financially secure. She’s got all kinds of accomplishments, beginning with founding and managing a private equity fund that delivered gains of over a million dollars to her investors, an average of almost 13% return. She advises real estate investors, just does all kinds of things related to taking money and making the money work for you. We’re going to dive into that today and I think it’s going to be really powerful for everybody listening, because as she told me before we got started, a lot of entrepreneurs have this big problem where we keep pumping all the money that we make back into our businesses. We’re going to talk about maybe what you should think about as an alternative.

 

So Susan, welcome, really excited to have you here today.

 

Thanks Steve. I’m super excited to be here with you.

 

So before we dive into things, give us a little background on you. I mean, we heard a little bit in the bio and you’ve done some pretty impressive things, but how, how’d you get to this stage of your career?

 

The most twisted path that you can probably imagine. I think that probably is the shared experience for most of the people that are listening to this.

 

But yeah, I mean, started, I mean, way back in the day, I was the car rental girl. I started working for Dollar Rent A Car when I was a sophomore in college, and I stayed there for five years. Then I walked across the street one day, to Hertz Rent A Car, and I worked my way up the corporate ladder at Hertz until I landed at the corporate headquarters in Park Ridge, New Jersey, which was a very different place to be for a girl from Colorado.

 

I followed the corporate path, just mainly because that was the path that was set out for me. My grandmother was a Depression-era person and she had that whole scarcity mindset and that was indoctrinated into me, that you needed to go to work for somebody else and you need to stay there forever, and then you need to retire with a pension and a gold watch. That’s the safe route. So I was very much on that path, until I … The way that I summarize it is that I climbed to the top of the tower and took a look around and realized that I really did not like what I saw.

 

So I decided to leave Hertz and came back to Colorado and went to work for myself. I still have no idea what even possessed me to think that I could do that. But I had been investing in real estate on the side, and doing some investing in the stock market. Because I was very fortunate to work at Hertz when they went public, when they were a wholly owned subsidiary of Ford, and then Ford spun us off. So as an employee, I was able to participate in the IPO and made quite a bit of money from that. That was kind of my golden parachute out of there.

 

But I just decided, I want to go all in on real estate investing. The one thing that trips up every single real estate investor is the money, how to get the capital and get the funding that you need to acquire the properties and fix them up. So I went to work learning the mortgage business, and I opened up my own mortgage firm. We served real estate investors exclusively in and around Denver, Colorado. I was just acting as a broker. Then I realized that the real power was in managing the capital. So I went out and started pitching investors to invest in a private equity mortgage fund that I put together. We used that money to make short-term loans to real estate investors who were going to be fixing and flipping properties in our area.

 

Everything was going great until 2008 happened. In the United States, in 2008, the mortgage industry crashed and it took the real estate market down with it, and it took a good portion of the American economy down with it. Some people are still struggling to recover from that.

 

Don’t Give a Man a Fish…

 

So I saw the writing on the wall, realized that what I was doing, my model specifically, and lending to real estate investors, was not going to be sustainable in that environment. So I decided to close the mortgage company, close the fund, and I decided to just start teaching real estate investors how to raise capital for themselves. So instead of handing them the fish, adopted this philosophy of I’m … Now my mission is to teach them how to fish, so that they can be self-sustaining, and they’ll always have access to the capital that they need.

 

Then that kind of became my business for several years, until just a couple of years ago. I switched up the model, decided that I really wanted to start teaching investing in a different way, that wasn’t specifically focused on real estate. I had a situation of personal tragedy in my life that gave me that aha moment, that we all get every once in a while, that made me realize, “Okay, it’s an important time for me to change this path.” So we switched up our path about, well, just under two years ago, to do what we’re doing now, with the Lassiter Publishing Group. We are a financial publisher, providing actionable research training and alerts now to independent investors.

 

So it’s been a winding path, a crazy journey. But the lessons learned along the way have just, have been spectacular. Honestly, looking back, I wouldn’t change a thing.

            

Yeah, it’s a fantastic story. It’s funny how we all take these winding little roads, particularly entrepreneurs, I think. We take these crazy little winding roads and it’s … There’s never, and I’ve done a hundred plus of these interviews, there never seems to be this straight line path for anybody. I don’t know if that’s just the nature of the entrepreneurial personalities, we just bump into a lot of walls and turn and go a different direction or what, but-

            

I think it has something to do with one of our best traits, and that might be adaptability.

            

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

            

That plays a big factor in there. I know it’s played a big factor in my journey. When you bump up, it’s like being a pinball machine when you’re the pinball, unfortunately. You just kind of get bounced around from thing to thing, and you realize, okay, this isn’t working and this is an obstacle and so how do I overcome this obstacle? You get bounced to the next thing, and so you just adapt. I think eventually, you land on some semblance of something that makes sense to you and hopefully it’s going to set your soul on fire a little bit so that you can do something that you really love, that really adds value not only to your life, but the people that you serve.

            

Well you’ve beat me to the punch on my next question, which is, when you run into these brick walls and have to adapt and go in a different direction, how have you approached that? What are some of your thinking processes, maybe some of the mindsets you’ve used to really be able to move and adapt and not get stuck?

 

How to Stay in Control When Things Are Out of Control

            

That’s such a great question. I think that one of the answers, or one of the examples that I could give, lies in the story where I closed my mortgage company. It was a huge deal. I mean, that was my business. I had had it for eight years. The fund, that was a multimillion dollar fund. We had done thousands of transactions out of there. When I shut it down, it wasn’t just, “Okay, I’m going to close the door and shut off the website and it’s just me.” I had employees and I had clients and I had investors and we were all in on what we’re doing. I felt that the demise of my business was because of external forces. It wasn’t anything that I did to crash out the business. The business was a great business until it wasn’t, and it wasn’t for reasons that were beyond my control.

            

I think that feeling powerless like that was probably the most shocking thing of all, for me. Because as entrepreneurs, we, and business owners, we are always the ones that are in control. We call the shots and we make the decisions. So I found myself in the situation where, “Okay, I’m reacting now,” as opposed to, taking the offensive approach and acting before the fact. This whole reactive situation that I found myself in was very foreign to me.

            

So what it really boiled down to was, close the business in the most responsible way possible. I’m very, still to this day, very proud of the fact that we got every single loan that was active in our fund, refinanced and paid off. Every single one of our investors made money. Nobody lost a single penny when we were shutting that thing down and winding it down. I’m still, in that environment, just so proud of that when I look back.

            

I closed the business, laid off my employees, and then, the first thing that I did, and I think this is probably the most important thing that you should consider doing when you find yourself experiencing challenges and obstacles like that is, I took a trip to Mexico and I laid on the beach and I drank margaritas and I cried, and I drank more margaritas, and I cried more, and I drank more margaritas, and I cried even more. Then pretty soon, the crying was less, the hangover got worse and I realized, “Okay, time to pull yourself together and figure this thing out.”

            

So for me, the way that I overcame up was to just ask myself, “What’s going to be the next step? I don’t have to plan out the next giant empire. I just have to figure out what my next step is going to be.” For me, that always comes from looking at how I can serve. So the people that I’d been serving, been working with, were real estate investors. The problem that my business had been solving for them was their inability to access funding.

            

Well, I realized that in that specific environment, that that was not going to get any better for them. It was only going to get worse for them. Because now, no banks were making loans to real estate investors, because those loans were considered subprime. That was the thing that was getting shut off. So I knew that if they were going to stay in business and they were going to continue to be able to grow their businesses, that I couldn’t just, going back to the metaphor, I used before, I couldn’t just continue to hand them the fish, because I didn’t have the fish to hand them anymore. I had to teach them how to do it for themselves. I knew that I had a special skill that I could systematize and teach in such a that people could understand it, and they could implement it and they could have success with it, and that’s exactly what ended up happening.

            

So I think that the two points are, go easy on yourself. If something happens, just take the time that you need to kind of grieve. That’s really what the crying and drinking in Mexico was, I think. It wasn’t, “Oh, I’m so sad that my financial life is in jeopardy,” because I had to shut my business. It was more grieving for the loss of the business, because that had been my life for so long. So I think first, take some time to mourn that.

            

The second thing is, just figure out, the next step. It doesn’t have to be the next giant plan. It just has to be the next step. The way I think that you really figure out what that next step is, is by figuring out, what is your special skill? What is the thing that you bring to the table that’s completely different from anybody else? Is it a skill that’s valuable enough that you could turn it into some sort of a business, where you could continue to further your relationship with clients and help them in even a deeper manner solve the biggest problem in their businesses? I have followed that plan over and over and over again as I bounce around, both listening to the needs of my clients and honestly, listening and realizing that my own needs occasionally change as well, and going through that same process and making those changes that really just all come down to adaptability, I think.

            

Yeah. It’s interesting, because I see business owners get bounced around. I told you before we started recording that we’re, our role is often part marketing help and strategy and part entrepreneurial therapist. So I hear a lot of things from business owners. It’s so hard, sometimes, for them to, when something like that happens, to step back and see where they create value that might be different than the label that they put on themselves.

            

Exactly.

            

I’m in this business, I’m in this industry. If I can read between the lines with what you just shared, that space you created allowed you, I think, tell me if you agree with this or not, but I would imagine that allowed you to step out and sort of observe things a little bit with, tequila and a little bit of distance-

            

Exactly.

            

… to get clarity.

            

Yeah, yeah. You’re absolutely right. That’s a spot-on read, for sure.

            

To me, that … We could stop the interview right here, because that was worth the price that everybody paid to listen to this and … But I do, I want to take a quick break. I want to come back and I want to dive into the way that you’re helping business owners get a handle on their finances and the wealth that they’re building. Because I think that’s a particular problem that a lot of people aren’t really talking about. So we’ll be right back with more from Susan Lassiter-Lyons.

            

Hey everybody, welcome back. This is Steve Gordon, and I’m talking with Susan Lassiter-Lyons. We’re going to switch gears here a little bit.

            

Susan, I know you work with folks on your particular approach to investing, which I’d love for you to tell us about, but I know you have this … You have a mission around communicating to entrepreneurs about where they’re building their wealth, where they’re keeping it, how … Are they reinvesting everything back in the business, and all that. So tell us a little bit about your viewpoint there and, and how it might impact the people listening.

            

Yeah. Love to. So, at Lassiter Publishing Group, we are a financial publisher and we are focused primarily on income investing and growth investing. I think my fundamental investment thesis is, it can kind of be summed up in an 80-15-5 bucket strategy.

            

So I firmly believe that 80% of my money should be invested in investments or securities or whenever you want to call them, both in the public and the private markets, that pay me some form of income, whether it’s a dividend, distribution, interest, what have you.

            

Fifteen percent of my portfolio, I allocate to value investments, things that I think are going to grow and be able to put out a capital gain as opposed to a dividend yield.

            

Then 5% is, that’s kind of the fun. That’s the fun bucket, where we, I call it my speculative growth bucket, I’ll give about 5% of my total portfolio to these very speculative growth stocks. That’s where CannaVestor Lab comes in. The question that you asked me is the question that so many people ask me is like, “Oh my gosh, how these two things go together. On the one hand, you’re writing and teaching about income investing. On the other hand, you’re encouraging people to invest in pot. What the heck is even going on here?” But I think that there’s a place for all of this in everybody’s portfolio. That’s my overarching philosophy with regard to this, specifically as it relates to entrepreneurs.

            

I mentioned that I had been super-focused on real estate and that was my business. I was in the business of teaching real estate investors how to raise capital, how to utilize that capital, how to structure the deals to best utilize the capital and get extreme profitability, both for themselves and their projects and for their investors so that they continue to reuse that money and gain credibility and grow their businesses.

            

Then January 4th, 2017 happened. My mom passed away unexpectedly and suddenly. She wasn’t sick. There was nothing. She just died, the best that we can figure, of a cardiac arrest. I set about settling her affairs and to say that I was stunned at what I discovered would be the understatement of the century. When my mother died, she literally had less than $200 to her name and she was 76 years old. Now, I knew that she wasn’t rich. We weren’t rich. I mean, we grew up kind of poor and I had been helping her and subsidizing her income and we’d buy her groceries and pay for a lot of her utilities and stuff and … But she was very secretive about money, and I never really understood exactly what was going on. When I saw that, it was, that was my big … Hey, it was my oh shit moment. I use that word on purpose, because it’s shocking, but because I, that was the impact that I felt. I was stunned to discover that.

            

I kind of zoomed out and thought, “Oh my gosh. This is the path that I’m on. I’m spending all of my time teaching other people how to generate wealth and reinvesting a good majority of my income back into the business, and if I’m being honest, probably living above my means.” We had million house that was tricked out, but … There were two of us. I’m like, “What are we doing, a 5,000 foot home. We don’t need this.” So it forced me to step back and take a look at myself, because I saw it. I kind of got this little mind movie, a vision of, “Oh my gosh. This could be me in 20 years, and that can’t be me in 20 years.”

 

Are You “Overweight” in One Investment

            

So I took a look at my portfolio, which really, at that point, wasn’t a whole lot. It was definitely overweight in real estate related investments. So if there ever was going to be another real estate crash, I was going to be taken out forever. I thought, “How can I invest so that I can get the biggest return and the biggest bang for my buck in terms of compounding? Because I need a fast return and I need a compounded return because I have some time that I need to make up now.” I’m 53 now, I’ll be 54 in a couple of months. So I’ve created this. I created the 15 year plan for myself, based on a target yield and the amount of money that I’m starting with and how much I can allocate to that going forward, and it’s going to get me where I need to be in retirement, to be able to have a kick ass lifestyle, as long as I follow that plan.

            

Here’s the problem I see with entrepreneurs and business owners, because that’s my peer group. This isn’t just outside observation. Like you, I talk to these guys all day long. We’re so caught up in our own business and in serving others that sometimes we forget to really take a look at what’s happening in our own financial lives until sometimes it’s almost too late.

            

So the Income Investors was built specifically to just teach people to invest the exact way that I’m investing. That is, to invest in public and private market opportunities. We have 12 different categories or strategies that we invest in, ranging from dividend stocks to royalties to baby bonds to revenue participation crowdfunding opportunities. We just allocate our money and send it out into the world with strict orders to not come back until you have more money with you.

            

We’ve set a target goal, and people come in and we have younger folks who are like, “Wow, I get the benefit of time to, and compounding, to be able to grow this plan. This is going to be easy peasy.”

            

We have people that are coming in that are in their sixties, who are like me and needing to make up some return and some time. They need to get something happening rather quickly, because retirement is looming and they’re are able to successfully build these shorter term plans, very focused on making sure that the money that they put out into the world is earning income.

            

So I’m all in on this income style of investing, and I have about 80% of my personal portfolio allocated this way. I would really recommend to entrepreneurs and small business owners, if you’re not currently doing something with your money, or if, even worse, you’re just blindly pumping it into a 401K or a SEP IRA like I was, and just plopping it into whatever mutual fund is available, you’re really not doing yourself any favors.

            

There’s so much more that you could be doing and so much more that you could be earning and so many more ways that your money could be growing so that you, that you do have that financial security in retirement that you’re … This is my mission now. I love getting the younger people, but I have to be, honest, Steve, when I talk to an older entrepreneur who comes to me in a situation like I’m in, or I was in a couple of years ago saying, “Okay, I had my aha moment and I need to make something happen very quickly,” I love getting my hands on those types of people and helping them build a plan, so that they do have a plan, first of all, and an adaptable plan. Because this is income investing.

 

The Anti-Fragile Portfolio

            

One of the things I love to say about it is that this is the, it’s almost like the anti-fragile portfolio, if you’re familiar with that, the very famous book. Anti-fragile just basically means, not something that’s just resilient. It actually means something that gets stronger under stress. So income investing, when markets crash and share prices tank, our income increases, because there’s an inverse relationship between yield and share price. So I’m like, “I want to get the highest amount of income possible, because these are all my paychecks.” I’m putting my money out into the world and when it’s earning, I get a paycheck after paycheck after paycheck. The capital gains is just the cherry on top.

            

So this is the style of investing that I think works perfectly. It’s a style of investing that lends itself nicely to a hands-off approach because it’s a set it and forget it, and a long-term strategy. It’s not like we’re day trading or swing trading. I love the fact that it’s this anti-fragile style of investing, that even if there’s going to be a recession or a market crash where something’s going to happen in a certain sector, we’re going to do better than just being resilient. We’re going to thrive.

            

So couple of observations on all of that. First, if I recall, and it’s been a little while since I’ve read much of Warren Buffett’s stuff, but isn’t that sort of his fundamental criteria for picking the companies that Berkshire Hathaway invests in, is that they have to-

            

Yes. Here’s an interesting thing about Warren Buffet. So Warren Buffet, his style of investing, he’s what we call a value investor. So his criteria is investing in solid companies, usually consumer-based companies, things that people are going to consume over and over, like Coca Cola and insurance and stuff like that, which are great industries, by the way. So he’s a value investor. When the share price goes down to the point that he feels it’s going to be a good value, and he follows, I think what we would call the Graham number, because his mentor was a guy named Benjamin Graham who developed this value investing calculation that basically looks at earnings and a bunch of other metrics and says, “Okay, now the share price is down to the point where it’s okay to invest with this.” Value investors find things when they’re highly discounted and on sale.

            

But, he also has a rule that the companies that he invests in have to pay some sort of a dividend. Now, he’s not looking for like high yield companies. He’s not looking for some of the higher dividends, like we are. He’s just happy if he has, they’re paying the S&P 500 average which, I think right now, is around 2%. But here’s the interesting thing about Warren Buffett. That’s his main criteria and what he insists on when he invests in a company, but in his investments, his companies, Berkshire Hathaway, he does not pay dividends to his shareholders, which I find very interesting.

            

Yeah. So, I mean, it sounds like he wants to make the money but not pay it out on the other side.

            

Right.

            

Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

            

So what does that tell you about income investing? It says, hey, if it’s going to … If it’s good enough for Warren to invest that way, but it’s, he’s not giving that up, that tells me that those, that income is precious.

            

Yeah, definitely. Well, the other thing that struck me as I’m listening to this is that, for every business that are listening, they already own about the … Excuse me, they own an income investment. It’s called their business.

            

Exactly.

            

Because it’s producing an income, and there may or may not be capital gains at the end.

            

Right.

            

Good.

            

Yeah. No, it’s a perfect analogy. That is one of our sources of income. So it’s obviously not a passive income stream, like the majority of our investments are. But it’s definitely our, as entrepreneurs and business owners, that is our main source of income, for sure.

            

Yeah. Well, and I know that for most of us, as we’re building a business, we get so focused on building that asset, and for good reason, I mean it is probably the thing that’s going to create wealth for the entrepreneur. But oftentimes, we end up plugging all of the profit back into the business, justifying it by saying, “Well, that’s just what we need to do to grow to the next step.” It’s interesting, my first business, I took that attitude. We reinvested a ton, and then we ran into it, like you did 2008, 2009, and ended up all having to go a different direction.

            

So as I build our current business, I take a little bit of a different approach. I mean, profits come out, that’s the purpose, right?

            

Right.

            

There’s the set aside and allocated for reinvestment and growth, but that’s different than profits. Talk to us a little bit about that approach that most folks are taking, and how you work with an entrepreneur who’s trying to grapple with, “Well how much do I need to keep reinvesting and what do we do with the rest?”

            

It’s going to be different for everyone. So the way that our system works, I call it the I-12 Income Acceleration System. I just stands for income, 12 because there are 12 different strategies, income investment strategies that we cover. It all starts with an inventory, and I call it a gap analysis. I mean, everybody’s familiar with the gap analysis and you figure out where we are right now, we determine where it is that we need to be or want to be at some point in the future, and then we kind of reverse engineer to create the plan that can get us there. That’s exactly what we do with our system.

            

So it starts off with a worksheet where people, they say, “How much investible capital do you have right now?” So if I was just starting this, I could say, “Well I have $250,000 in a mutual fund and a SEP IRA that’s just been there and I just have contributed some minimums to it.”

            

“Oh Wow. Cool. So we have $250,000 to start with that we can reallocate across these 12 buckets.” Then we build a target allocation plan. So somebody can come in and it’s almost like reading a menu. Here are 12 opportunities for investment. Here is the range of yield that you’re going to get from each of them. So people just pick and choose. They say, “All right, I’m going to put maybe one fifth of it in dividend and stocks. I’ll put another fifth of it into a revenue participation crowd funding deals. I’ll put another fifth into it, investing in royalties another fifth invested in business development companies,” and so forth. Then we just go shopping for the different investments.

            

Part of what we do at the Income Investors is research. We’re researchers and writers. We publish two investment ideas across whatever topic we are covering that particular month for the folks to choose from. We have about 50 different ideas in there right now. So it’s a deep dive into the company, how they work, how they make money, what the potential return could be, what our opinion of it is, based on our fundamental analysis and technical analysis as well.

            

Then the folks just go shopping based on, “Oh, okay, well here’s an eight yielder that sounds good to me.” Or, “Oh, this one is a 12 yielder, and this looks safe.” And, “Oh, this one is a six yield, 6% yielder. So maybe I can add for a little bit of safety, to round things out.”

            

Then, it’s just implementing the plan and managing it appropriately. Now, the thing that’s similar with the way that we treat our businesses and what you just mentioned is our businesses produce income. They produce profits for us. So we take those profits and it’s like, “What do we do with those profits?”

 

What to Reinvest in Your Business – and What to Do With the Rest

            

So business owners can take that, the profit from their business, which is the income from that business, and they can reinvest it in the business, to grow it, and earn more income. Or, they can take them as distributions to fund their lifestyle, or take that money and invest it in something that is going to earn even more money. There needs to be some attention paid to that, and some sort of a strategy that’s implemented to determine, “Okay, on a monthly basis, we are going to take x percentage of our profits and allocate that to income investments.”

            

Because here’s the interesting thing about investing with profits. Your return really is infinite. I have this system that I call profit cycling, where, like on the cannabis side, so I invest in cannabis stocks, they’re speculative growth stocks. You know the record of my cannabis investing right now, we had in a position that returned us 1,196%. So we get a 10 bagger on cannabis side. I was like, “Awesome.” So now I’m in a profit cycle. So I sell just enough shares to take back out my initial invest in capital, and then I let that entire position run on profits.

            

So then, if something happens to that company, I’m not going to freak out and get all emotional saying the thing that everybody says, “Oh I lost money.” Well did I? It was running on profits, and if I manage that smartly, and continued to draw down if and when I need to, to kind of play defense with that position, then that’s just good portfolio management. But it’s actively taking profits from one investment, and it can be a public market investment, it can be a private market investment and it can be your own business, and putting that money to work earning even more money. That’s where we get that compounded growth, the miracle of compounding. We can turbocharge those returns and let our money grow exponentially, as opposed to just plopping it in a mutual fund, and hoping that somebody is going to manage it well on our behalf.

            

Yeah, and I think for so many of us running businesses, to be able to pull some of that money out and have it growing elsewhere, it’s just a great hedge. I mean, as much as everyone likes to look at these big exits that happen, I know, I’ve been around small business long enough to know that for the vast majority of small businesses, there’s not an enormous payday at the end.

            

Correct.

            

The business has not been built to allow for that. So you’ve got to do it somewhere else, if you really want to be able to fund the other portion of your life outside the business. Not only that, you give yourself options. Even if the business does sell, you’ve still created all these options for yourself where you get to make a choice, and a good choice, not a choice between things that you don’t necessarily like.

            

Exactly.

            

I like having options.

            

Yeah, me too. That’s what you get with this. I mean, my whole goal with this strategy is to arrive at what I call a personal profit. If we look in our own financial lives as a P&L, like straight up business proposition, when we have debts, and when we don’t make enough income to cover our expenses, we’re running and operating at a personal loss. When we have enough income coming in that meets our expenses, then that’s when we hit personal break even. That’s the first key point for us. Once we hit personal break even, then the goal is to go into personal profit, where the amount of income that our investments passively are producing for us, not just meets our outgo, but it exceeds it. Now, though, we’re really talking options.

            

Because I meet with so many small business owners who are like, “Look, Susan, this is all great, but I don’t even know what retirement means. I love what I do so much, I want to keep doing it for as long as I can, and if I can keep doing it until I’m 80 that’s what I’m going to do.”

            

I’m like, “Great, then you’re going to love this even more, because being able to work if you want to, not because you have to, I think, is the greatest luxury that we can ever have as entrepreneurs, as business owners.” If I decide at 70 that I want to take a two year sabbatical and go back and revisit that margarita and crying beach, I can do it, because my bills are covered passively because of my investments. Then, if I want to go back and start serving people in the capacity that I want to serve them into the future, until I’m well into my eighties, if I live that long, then that’s my option. I can absolutely do that. But I’m working, then, because I want to, because I love it, not because I have to, because I have to do it in order to survive.

            

Yeah. I love the approach. So Susan, if folks listening want to find out more about you and about what you’re doing, where’s the best place for them to go?

            

Sure. Just head over to theincomeinvestors.com so it’s T-H-E, the or the, incomeinvestors.com. You’ll know you’re in the right place when you see a big orange masthead that says, “Grow your money.” That’s what we’re all about. We have a free income investing mini course. If folks want to opt in they can go through that, and take a look at the worksheet and stuff for the course that we use.

            

Awesome. Yeah, we’ll link that up in the show notes so everybody can find it, so they don’t have to try and scramble while they’re driving down the highway and write that down. Just check out the show notes if you didn’t catch that. Again, it’s theincomeinvestors.com.

            

Susan, thanks so much. This has been really great. I love the approach that you’ve got and I appreciate you investing some time with me today, so that we could share this with everybody listening.

            

You bet. I appreciate you, Steve. Thanks for having me on the show and we keep up the good work. I think what you’re doing for everybody is just fabulous. So appreciate it, and on behalf of everybody, thank you so much.