Steve Gordon | Creating an Impactful Customer Experience

You might think a sale is just about a customer or client paying you. But that’s just one part of the whole customer experience. 

It starts with your first contact, how you create credibility, and everything else you do to make it more likely they’ll not just take your offer, but also stay with you long-term.

It’s a concept called sales choreography, and I’ll be exploring that topic in depth. One of the most important elements is your positioning, and how it can set the tone for your entire relationship.

I’ll go into depth on that, including… 

  • How to set yourself apart from nearly identical competition
  • The only two ways to position yourself as a salesperson
  • What people are really buying when they hire you or buy a product – and how to make them realize it
  • Why you should only create win-win situations with clients
  • The leverageable information a bit of observation can achieve

Listen now…

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Steve Gordon: Welcome to the Unstoppable CEO Podcast. I’m your host, Steve Gordon. And today we’ve got something special for you. I’m actually stealing some content from another podcast that I do with my good friend and my longtime client, John Curry. We have just started within the last couple of months a podcast called the Advisor Inner Circle for financial advisors, and we had an episode that I think applies to every business.

And it’s something that John’s an absolute master at and I’ve learned a ton from him on this. And the topic of this episode that you’re about to hear is called sales choreography. And it’s really all about how you choreograph the entire experience from when a prospect first comes into your world until they become a client and beyond. And the context of this, you’ll hear us refer to advisors or financial advisors, but ignore all of that.

This applies to every business. And I think it’ll really change the way that you look at all of your marketing and sales processes. So enjoy. I’m your host, Steve Gordon. And today I’m here with my co-host, John H. Curry. And, John, always a pleasure to be back with you. Today we’re going to be talking about a, I think, a really important topic and one that maybe people aren’t even aware of. The topic today is sales choreography. So we’re gonna have a lot of fun with it.

John Curry: That’s a strange topic, isn’t it? Choreography.

Steve: Absolutely. What exactly is sales choreography?

What is Sales Choreography?

John: Well, the best way to think of it is positioning. How do you position yourself? So think in terms of if you were part of a Broadway production, would be choreographed? Or would they say, Hey, guys, just go out there and do a little adlibbing. No big deal. People don’t mind paying 150, 200, $500 per ticket and watching a bunch of clowns run around on stage.

So we’ll just adlib tonight. Or would they have someone who is highly trained come in and say wait a minute, we need to choreograph this so that we know exactly what each person is doing, when they’re going to do it, how they do it and what the end result is. That’s what choreography means to me.

Steve: So, as you think about sales choreography, what all does it encompass? Where does it begin? Where does it end? How do you for somebody who’s sitting here going I’ve never heard that term before. I mean, how would you relate it to them in terms of how you practice you know, your service, how you deliver your advising?

John: Well, the first thing that pops in my mind is I used to say it starts when people get to your office, in your parking lot or in the lobby. That’s not true. It’s with everything prior to that. How did you position yourself? How did you choreograph what you, how you approach them? Did you send them a nice letter? Did you send them a book a handwritten note?

Did you call them? Every contact you have with someone is part of that sales choreography. Most people don’t give much thought to it. I’ll just pick up the phone and call Steve and try to convince them to come in and give me his money. You may do that, but I don’t think that’s the thing you can do consistently without wearing yourself out.

Steve: Well, I think that whether you’re conscious of it or not, you are practicing sales choreography. And, you know, you, I think it’s good that you said no, this goes back to even how you begin the initial contact with the person because the only thing that really makes an advisor, one advisor different from another because I mean, you all have access to virtually the same products. I mean, I know I have advisors all the time that told me they’ve got some hot new products. But you know, then the more I listened, I’m going well, yeah, I got, you know, I’ve talked to five other guys that have something almost identical to that.

So the fact of the matter is, with all the regulations that there are today, there are very little innovative financial products. And so the thing that you’re selling that unique is you. It’s your expertise, it’s your personality. That’s ultimately what they’re buying first, and then the products come. And so you can position yourself one of two ways. You can position yourself as a salesperson, or you can position yourself as an authority that they should pay attention to because you’ve got something unique to say, or you’ve got a personality that they find interesting and attractive and they want to be around.

John: Well, we had a situation a few days ago, Jay and I. A couple came in, she has been to at least two, maybe four, I think she said four seminars. Two that I remember and some webinars. And she took issue with the fee. She said, Well, I don’t want to pay a fee, because other people will do the same work and not charge a fee. And I said well, you told me you’ve been to several other people’s seminars and you’ve met with them. But yet you’re here. What’s the difference?

Why have you worked with them? And she says, that’s a darn good question. So I said look, let me be real clear. All of those people, all those people are willing to do all the work hoping they get the business. I don’t do that anymore. There’s a planning fee for a reason. It’s so that I can cover my overhead. I don’t make any profit on that. Now I need to explain it to you, I make no profit on that fee. That covers overhead, it covers my staff, because they’re the ones who are doing the work behind the scenes anyway.

What you’re paying for is my 45 years of experience of dealing with thousands of people just like you. I’m not practicing. I do this every day. Every day that I show up to work, I see four or five, sometimes six people a day who have the same issues you do. But I understand. If we’re not the right fit, then we’re not the right fit. But I’m not going to sit here and try to sell you on writing a check for a fee. The two of you can go home and talk about and think about it. And if I’m the right guy, come on back. Now I have since mailed her a handwritten note to the two of them, as well as a summary of what they get from working with me.

And then we’ll see where it goes. The team was asking well, should we call them? Nope. Not yet. We’ll send them another note later, and then whenever, you can call, but no, because that’s part of the choreography in the sense of, what are they expecting me to do? They’re expecting me to be like all these other people they’ve dealt with, to promise everything. And then I told them, I said look, if I do it that way, I’ll be frustrated, you’ll be frustrated.

I’ll be frustrated because I have to make a sale. I have to make a sale to pay for my time, make money from me and company overhead. You don’t want to make me make a sale because you don’t want to buy anything. So now we’re not, we’re pumping deals. And that’s not what you want. And that’s what I want. And nine times out of 10 when I do that the person says yeah, that makes total sense. Occasionally get the one out of 10 whitelist couple where they’re hanging back and we’ll see what happens.

But if I did all the work, I couldn’t, there’s no money to move for another year and a half anyway. So we’ll see. But that’s part of what I call the choreography also even, that’s something as well that’s got nothing to do with how you arrange stuff. Sure he does because the notecard that was paperclipped in a certain way the envelope was handwritten. Sure it does.

Steve: And the timing of it is important too. You’re not giving off the impression that you’re chasing.

John: Correct, because we’re not.

Steve: Right. And that’s intentional. And so the choreography starts and one of the reasons we started this off and one of the early episodes and talked about marketing, it starts with your marketing. It starts with how you get that person across the desk from you to begin with. Because if you don’t do that, well, you can do all the other choreography you want and at that point, it’s not necessarily going to be believable.

So really, this is an end to end process with how you communicate with and prepare a potential client to do business with you. But now, let’s say you’ve communicated with them in a way that attracts them to you. Maybe they’ve come to one of your seminars, they booked an appointment. It’s the day of the appointment, and they’ve gotten in their car, across town and drive it over to your office. Okay, how do you take that experience? From that moment they’ve, you know, they’ve cranked up the engine and they’re backing out of the driveway. What happens from that point all the way through the end of the meeting?

John: Very good. So here’s what I do. When I work with our team talking, you have to assume that on the way here, if they wrote together, that they got in a fight about something. Maybe they had a money issue, maybe he says, I don’t we go to that meeting. Why are you dragging me there? Somewhere you think Curry is good, but I don’t want to go. Or maybe they encountered a traffic accident that slowed them down. I want you to assume that something went wrong on their way here. Therefore, when they get here in this parking lot, that’s where it all starts. When they get in the parking lot there now on our turf. When they walk in the front door, definitely so.

I don’t want them waiting very long. If they’re early in, let’s say they’re 15 minutes early. Yes, that’s on them. They got here early. But I want someone going down there saying Hello. I’m so excited. I’m Jay, I’m Audi, I’m April, I’m Ed, I’m Debbe. Someone other than me to go say hi. You’re a little early. They’ll say Yeah, we’re very early. Sorry about that. We’ll get you in as quick as we can, but it’s probably going to be right it’s your appointment time. And they go we understand. We’ll just have a cup of coffee and relax. And that’s good. Because what happened is I don’t care how early they are.

If they’re having to sit there and there’s been no contact even though Rose, our receptionist does a great job, or whoever sitting over offering them, soda water, coffee, they need contact with my team. So that’s the beginning right then Steve? Someone they’re saying hello, either they’ve already been asked 10 times ask them again and again to anything. That’s what I then I suppose I write them down for the site for whatever reason we’ve got a client running over. Oh, how was someone again going and tell them don’t make them sit there. One, because I don’t want it done to make doctors’ offices.

Don’t make me wait. That’s not my problem. You’re inefficient in your office. You’re supposed to have somebody ready to take me in there at my appointed time. So it’s a mindset. We talked about that word a lot. You have that mindset. My mindset is, I don’t want you sitting out there in that lobby any longer than necessary. Why? Because I do not want to expose anything else but TV in the song handyman type stuff HDTV. I don’t want to have your conversations that might have a good year but in my suite of offices as quickly as possible, and then you will talk about what they see when it comes down the hall.

Steve: Yeah, let’s go through that entire journey. They come in the parking lot. They’ve been in the reception area in the building, this is inside your agency, right? So there’s lots of other advisors around so they’re sitting in that main reception area for someone for, being comfortable chair someone from your team comes and collects them and escorts them back. So what do they see along the way? What’s talked about? How does your team prepare them?

John: Very good. First of all, what they will get is they’ll have a friendly person who is not grumpy and how dare you come bother me. I’d get a lot of work done if it wasn’t for your customers, clients. So they have an engaging person who is genuinely interested in them, and we’ll have a chit chat from the time they get here. But then it doesn’t stop because the time they get into my conference room, the two double doors that separate my stand up office from the conference room closed. Like alright now this call. The chairs are positioned properly around the table, and they will bring them in, seat them, and I won’t be in the room.

Most of the time, even though I’m sure they’ve already got water, I’ll be going down to the kitchen because it gives me time to walk away. I’ll go brush my teeth, go down to the kitchen and get some bottles of water come back. And they have a little joke about it. Jay will say every time, See, I told you to bring more water. I’ll come to the door, if there’s talking I will stand in the doorway, right in the door frame. I’ll just stand there and fill the door until they make eye contact. Nine times out of 10 the man’s gonna stand up and shake my hand, a lot of times the lady will stand up, big hug, how ya doing, haven’t seen you in a while. I don’t interrupt the conversation.

So they’re talking about kids, babies I’ll let them go for a little bit. And when it’s appropriate, they’ll know it’s time to stop. And then I’ll step in and go to work. And almost every appointment someone’s with me. either Jay, Audi, April, Ed. Somebody is in the meeting with me. So we’ll get down to business when it’s appropriate. I’ll chit chat a little bit. You know, you have any trouble finding us? No, not at all. Everything’s good. And then I’ll ask the two questions I want to ask. Well, how much time did you set aside for today’s appointment? Oh, we got all day. We don’t. We’re starting at 12.

Our next appointment is at two, we got to be done no better than 1:30 work for you? They go Yes, that’s perfect. Thank you. Other times, don’t tell me I need to be out of here in 45 minutes. I’ve got something pressing at work. Great. What would you like to accomplish in that time? So I let them tell me what is important to them. I know what I want to cover. And then also go here’s what I have in mind for today. Give you an overview of what we do and how we do it. I think we can do that 45 minutes. What do you think, Mr. Client? And let them decide. And then when you’re ready, let me know this and that and I’ll tell you what’s on the walls around me as these clients come in.

Steve; Well, I want to go back to a couple of specific and important details. So when the client is brought to your office, you’re not there. You, I mean, back to this idea of choreography. You’ve choreographed it such that you always make an interest.

John: 99.999% of the time. Occasionally, there’s point one that I’ll just give myself just rest.

Steve: So why is it important for you to make an entrance?

The Art of Observation

John: Well, it’s more important for first for them to have somewhat of a relationship with my team, then me. if I’m in the room, who they’re going to gravitate to? They’re going to ignore the person who brought them almost like brush them aside. Makes sense. I don’t want that. I want them to have some engagement with that person. Especially if that is the one who’s going to be in the meeting with me.

So it starts that chemistry of okay John has competence in this person, or he or she would not have come to get me it would not be staying. That’s number one. Number two, I want to also I can hear coming down the hallway, are they laughing? Is it kind of like sometimes you’ll have the husband using it. How you doing today? I’m okay. Fine. Is he a little gruff sounding? Well, it gives me cues as I’m coming down the hall.

And then number three, lastly, is it about me, I want to make sure I stand there, the presence that you call it’s not much of a presence because usually got about three or four bottles of water in my hand, but it’s just I’m standing there. And I’m listening. And I’m watching. Sometimes I’m watching to see, if there’s someone new especially, did they start digging into lunch as it was served or did they wait for me? That tells me a lot about a person too. There’s a lot there. Just observe. Like Sherlock Holmes said, you see but you do not observe. You observe.

Steve: So there they are, they’re in your office for a couple of minutes with one of your team members. And they’re sitting down and they’re starting to look around. And when they look around, everything they see is placed there with great intention. I know this because you and I’ve talked about it probably for hours at this point about what’s in there and why it’s there and it’s positioned in a certain place so that they see it. Talk a little bit about your office.

Decorate With Intent

John: Okay. Just outside my office, there was a nice painting I purchased from a client. Flamingos over a sofa table. And then there’s a little, I called, just a little office space. There’s nothing in there other than some big poster that we used at my book signing back in 2009. That is there for positioning that. Oh, I remember that you had the book coming out. And then there’s some common mistakes that people make in estate planning. Big posters of famous people on the wall.

Then they walk in the door itself, the first thing they see looking around now, first thing that’s in their line of vision is my Air Force Commendation Medal, my citation for that, that if you haven’t looked to the right, which most people will, because that’s on the left-hand side of the window, they glance to the right and they see the famous portrait of the signing of the Declaration of Independence by John Trumbull, and a miniature copy of the declaration below it.

And if they keep turning, they’ll see a picture of Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse walking over a bridge and in the sky are all these things, these dreams of things that have happened long after Disney died and you will see other things that happened that he had a vision for. You’ll see half a dozen things here that are about Disney, about his vision, philosophy. And then you’ll see plaques. You’ll see mostly gavels. About 5 gavels where I’ve been president of some organization. There is nothing on the wall, nothing that says number one in sales, top this pop that, nothing.

You’ll see some leadership Tallahassee Rotary Club. 3 diplomas from an American college. One is my master’s degree in financial services. So those are prominently displayed so that people feel like I am a professional, like going to see a doctor or a lawyer. And then the thing that’s most prominent that they always comment on, not always, most of the time comment on I have a heart-shaped pillow that sitting on his own little pedestal. It says heart to heart. Many people say What’s that about?

And if they know what it is I say, Oh, you’ve had heart surgery. Yes, I did. July 10, 2008, open-heart surgery, triple bypass to be exact. So to remind me of that surgery, but also to remind me that any given moment I could die, you could die. But most important to have a heart big enough to challenge you when I know it can help you and you’re taking the wrong path. So everything is there for a reason. I have a knight in shining armor.

Steve: Stop for a second. Okay, because you went over that quickly. That last statement you made about the heart pillow, so I can have a heart big enough to challenge you when I think you’re going down the wrong path. Do you actually say it like that?

John: I say it just that way.

Steve: Okay. So and so,

John: Sometimes that starts a conversation by the way, but go ahead.

Steve: Well, so you have, most people don’t have the confidence to do this, but you’re going to have you know, you’re going to have to handle objections, right? You know, that they’re going to have they’re coming to you dealing with probably some of the more difficult issues in their lives as it relates to money and mortality and family and all of these things. And that’s difficult for people, and often they’re going to make either uninformed or want to make poor decisions. for themselves for all kinds of reasons.

And you know that, so you’ve just set them up to allow you to challenge those. And you’ve done it in a way, you’ve told them that I’m doing that out of love because I have a heart because I want to help you. And you’ve done it in such a wonderful way that, I mean they can’t help but accept now that when you push back, you’re doing it from a place of caring about them.

John: Agreed. And there’s another time I use. Let’s suppose that things are getting a little testy. So let’s say you and Aaron sitting here we’re having a conversation that’s getting a little uncomfortable. I’ll refer to it then I’ll say I don’t know if you noticed, but he said the heart-shaped pillow behind you over here to your side? And sometimes they’ll say, oh I didn’t notice it. Well, it’s there for three reasons. One, to remind me of open heart surgery I had back in 2008.

It’s also to remind me of any given moment, either one of us, our heart to stop beating and we could die. But the biggest reason it’s there is to remind me to have a heart big enough to care and to challenge you when I know I can make a difference and help you with something. And this is one of those times. So you’re working on a premise of certain information being correct. And I know it’s not. So what I have to do is man up and let you know that and offer an alternative if you’re willing to look at it. Now, please understand, this is your plan, not mine.

You’re welcome to keep what you’re thinking, or I can help you if you want help. But it’s just another tool. It’s a device. Same as my knight in shining armor is to remind me that when things get hot in the meeting, and it’s testy and could be considered high-pressure, the knight is to my left, and the heart is to my right. Those are ques for me, Steve, so that when I need to summon a little bit of courage, I can go oh shit, let’s get with it.

Steve: So describe the knight.

John: He’s a little short knight. He’s only about three and a half feet tall. I wish I wish I had the full size one. Next time I see one I’m going to buy it. But it’s just basically a knight in shining armor made out of tin. And he’s there to remind me that I may be their knight in shining armor. And it reminds me of all the death claims that I have delivered to families over the years, or disability claims check or a check-up with someone start their retirement. It reminds me that don’t back off. That’s what it’s for. That’s my suit of armor. Put it on.

Steve: So they’ve looked at all this stuff around the room, you maybe pointed out some of the things as you’ve gone through the meeting where it makes sense. And you started the meeting the way that you always do. You confirm the time and ask them what they want to accomplish during your time together. And now you’re into the meeting. And so talk a little bit about how you choreograph the rest of the meeting.

John: I started by wanting to know what’s on your mind. What’s important to you? What do you want to accomplish today? Talk to me. Let’s have a conversation. I probably say that 20 times a day, let’s just have a conversation. And I just listen. And occasionally I don’t get it a lot. Sometimes I people saying, you know, we don’t know. We don’t know where to start. We don’t know what questions to ask. We’re confused. We just need to know how, we just have this sense you can help us. And when I get that, I say Well, that’s fair.

How about I give you an overview of who we are, how we work, our planning process, and then we can determine if we’re a fit. If we’re a fit will continue. If not, you can say goodbye, no hassle, no pressure. And you can just see their shoulders go. You know, just you can see the tension just go because they’re number one, they’re uncomfortable anyway because they’re coming in to see a stranger most of the time. They might have seen me at a seminar, they might have gotten a copy of my book or a referral.

They still, they don’t really know me. They don’t really know what I’m going to do to them, right? They’re afraid I’m gonna give them a cashectomy. Take all their money, hypnotize them and take the money away from them. And sometimes I’ll say that Look, I don’t have the ability to give you a cashectomy and I hypnotize you and take all your money and your jewelry. And they’ll laugh, you know, have fun with it. It breaks the ice.

Steve: Well, so a couple of I think, critical elements to that, that I want to point out. You don’t start with well, here all the products we sell. You start, here’s who we are. So if they’re skeptical, or they don’t really know, you start with, let me tell you a little bit about who we are. So you start with who. Okay. And then you say well, let me tell you a little bit about our process. So what you’re selling is you, your team, your expertise, right? Because that’s ultimately what they’re buying. That’s what makes you different. And your process, which is also what makes you different.

Experience is the Product

John: Yes. Now I tell people every day who will listen to me, colleagues, friends, friendly competitors, colleagues across the country, I’ll be in Chicago Wednesday through Friday with a group of advisors, not sure it’s going to come up and I’ll be back in town for a week, then the 26th and 28th I’ll be in Philadelphia, another group of advisors. And I’m sure it’s going to come up, you know, how do you do this? How do you do so much business? Well, there’s no secret.

You just simply show up, you see people, make sure they know who you are, keep in touch, and reach out to them occasionally so that they’ll know when it’s time to do something come to you. But it’s the same thing one on one, Steve, so having a conversation that applies to them. And you’re correct. I believe totally that I am the product. I am the messenger as well as my team. And they can get products anywhere. I tell them that.

You can get products anywhere. You don’t need us for that. What you can’t get is what is in between my ears that I’ve accumulated in the experience, and hopefully some wisdom, and dealing with literally thousands of people for 45 years. That you’re not getting elsewhere, because that’s unique to me. That is mine. I have that. No one else has that.

Steve: Yeah. I’ve got a friend in your business and she likes to say, you know that you can get the products anywhere. You can call 1-800 no help if you’d like.

John: Right. Yeah, I use that line a lot too. I like that especially the no help. You know, no help this no help that. But I think the key is just getting comfortable being who you are. You know, I walk in the door I got my dress suit on, got my business suit on I got my cowboy boots on. I’m just me. And maybe some people don’t like me, it’s okay. But just be yourself. Be authentic, as much as you can. And then truly, truly care and want to help the person you’re in front of.

And if you can’t help them tell them. I just told a guy, so I can’t help you. Here’s what I can help you with. But you told me you want to go buy this product today. I don’t think that product’s appropriate. And I wouldn’t do that. And he said What if I told you I wanted it anyway. So in this case, I would have to decline because I know this is going to hurt you. You’re gonna need your money, you’re gonna need the money back in less than a year. What do you want me to do? He had heard me talk about it in one of the seminars, a particular annuity.

And he was hell-bent on putting his $45,000 into this thing. And then five minutes later, he’s telling me how he’s going to take about 10,000 out in the next six months to a year. I said, see? If I did what you wanted, I’d make a commission but you’d be hurt. And he goes, Wow, thank you. And you’re welcome. I didn’t do anything for you that I would not want you to do for me. Just look out for my interest and I’ll look out for yours. It’s got to be win-win. And if it’s not win-win, we shouldn’t do it. Should not do it.

Steve: So before we wrap up, John, I know everybody has been listening to this waiting for you to share the magic words that you use that close every sale. So can you tell us what those are?

No Need for Magic Words

John: I can’t. They don’t exist. I don’t close every sale. Most people that I meet with to do business with us, but we still have a few who for whatever reason, maybe it’s personality, maybe its timing, maybe it’s something like that where they just are not ready. And we lose some you know, every now and then we have somebody call up. It happened this morning. A guy decided to cancel three good old fashioned quality whole life policies because they’re building a house.

Now I don’t think he should cash them in. I made that mistake years ago on a policy and I’ve explained it to him about three times, maybe even four. Got his mind made up. So yeah, one day he’d be asking us so just send the forms. But I don’t have any magic words. The closest I have to magic words are simply this. Steve, this makes sense to me. Would you like to move forward and do it? And mostly everybody says it does make sense.

And yes, I’d like to do it. But it’s sort of saying, Well, now it’s time to complete the paperwork. And I simply say, Steve, this makes sense to me. Would you like to do this? And to me, it’s low key, it’s not uncomfortable. Because if you’ve been nodding the whole time, hey, this makes sense. I like this. I like this, then why wouldn’t I just simply say, this makes sense to me. I think it makes sense to you. Does it?

Steve: And they’ll say, Yeah, because they’ve been agreeing all the way along with you.

John: Or they won’t. They may say, No I want to do something different. But at least I know where we are. So to say it’s like, it’s a close, if you will, but it’s not like in your face screaming at you. By the way one of the thing I did not mention this in the office, I think is extremely important. I have one bookcase in this office and it’s loaded with books on retirement, and taxation.

So it’s only, the only books allowed in here behind closed doors is the two more bookcases where I can go retrieve whatever I need. The only books allowed in here are stuff related to social security, Medicare, retirement income planning, things like that. So when they look over that bookcase, they go hmm, 1, 2, 3 shelves full of stuff on retirement planning and social security.

Steve; And your master sales book and all of that, that’s in the other room.

John: That’s correct. There’s not one book in here on sales. But no. But why is it there? Do you want to deal with someone who is constantly reading and getting better at what they do for a living or someone who thinks they know it all and they stopped growing? So I want them to see that I’m constantly going to stock up. There are two miniature diplomas here. One from Yale University last year one from the Chicago Booth School of Business this year.

I keep it there because it talks about the retirement masters summit. Sometimes people ask, what’s that about? Oh, each year I go to a program for three days, so I can be around the best of the best when it comes to retirement planning. And some people were shocked by that and go really? You still do that? Oh, yeah. There are three conferences here I go to just for that reason.

Steve: Yeah, and all of that lends to credibility. It lends to authority. It reinforces why they are there in front of you. All that’s part of the choreography and folks, these, they may sound like little details, but they add up. There’s a cumulative effect to them. And you may not be in a position where you have all of these little details available to you. But John, there was a time in your career where you didn’t have them all. You’ve collected them over time. You’ve layered them in.

John: Yes, but when you do have are pictures of your family. I’m, over my right shoulder, there’s a picture of there if family. There’s another picture of that. If you’re sitting here in my office you’d be able to see it. But you can do other things. You can put nice pictures on the wall. Just don’t have any salesy stuff to where they’re afraid of you.

Steve: Yeah, and that’s so important, and I think so very different in your approach to this then when I see a lot of folks doing. So folks, I hope this has been helpful. John, any final thoughts you want to share with people?

John; Just one, and that is just look around at what makes you feel comfortable, makes you feel at ease, put those things on your wall around your office to make you feel good about dealing with people and just trying to do things that show that you’re involved with your family and your community. Church, whatever makes you feel good. I would try to stay away from political stuff.

We see people who are Democrat or Republican, or, but I don’t think there’s a place for that. There’s not a place for it in my office anyway. You walk in here it’s neutral. If somebody asked me I won’t lie to them. I’ll answer the question, but I’m not going to start a fight on purpose. So just try to do it in a manner of where it’s comfortable, fun to be in. But it exudes confidence in you.

Steve: Yeah, absolutely. Well, folks, if you’re getting value out of this podcast, we would love it if you would go to iTunes and subscribe to the podcast and leave us a rating and a review. We read all of those reviews and we can’t wait to see yours.

So if you go to iTunes and find the Advisor Inner Circle podcast and tell us what you think. And do us a favor, share this with some advisors in your office that might benefit from it. We were really do want to make a big impact on the industry. And one of the ways that you can help us do that is to share this with other advisors that are in your community and in your office. Folks, thanks again for tuning in. And we’ll see you in the next episode.

John: See you next time.

Steve: Hey, it’s Steve, and I hope you really enjoyed that episode. I know that I learned a ton when I had that original conversation with John. And every time I have a conversation with him about these topics, I always end up walking away and we implement something new in our business that moves us forward. And I hope it does that for you too. I would love to hear what you thought of the interview and what actions you’re going to take as a result of it.

So shoot me an email. Send me an email at Say hi. Let me know if you’re getting value from the podcast, and until next time, stay unstoppable. This episode of The Unstoppable CEO Podcast is sponsored by the Unstoppable Agency. That is the agency part of our business where we work with professional service firms and create a done for you marketing program.

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