Steve Gordon: Welcome to the Unstoppable CEO Podcast. I’m your host Steve Gordon, and we got a dynamite interview for you today. Very excited to have our guest on. I’ve known this particular guest for I think about six or seven years now. And he is the preeminent expert at creating engagement among your team and your employees and really communicating throughout your organization in a powerful way. And so I’m really excited today to finally have Skip Weisman on the Unstoppable CEO Podcast. Skip, welcome.
Skip Weisman: Thank you, Steve, it’s great to be here finally.
Steve: Absolutely. Well, let me give everybody a little bit of background. And then I want you to fill in the blanks from there. So you’re an international keynote speaker, you’re a seminar presenter, you’re a business coach, and you really specialize in transforming mediocre and stagnant small business work environments into what you would describe as very high-performing company cultures that are more positive, that are more productive, and they’re more profitable.
You call that championship company culture, which I love that. That’s such an aspirational way to view culture. And I think culture gets maligned in a lot of ways. But you take that, and then you apply those strategies that I think you really developed through a 20-year career in baseball, into your small business clients. And I think that’s really unique in what you do.
And so, folks, for those of you haven’t heard of Skip before, back during his baseball days, he served as CEO for five different baseball franchises. He left baseball in 2001. And since then he’s been helping small business owners create championship companies all over and doing a phenomenal job of it. And so Skip, what did we leave out? What, in your backstory, what else is important for folks to know before we dive into content here?
Skip: Yeah, you know, it’s, it’s really interesting. From a personal standpoint, you know, when I told family and friends that I was going to be leaving baseball after 20 seasons in the game, they really couldn’t believe it, because that was the only thing I cared about from the time I was seven years old. And I was Mr. Baseball, and I was, that was my identity, and nobody can believe that I was leaving the game. And it was sort of a shock to me. But you know, we talked about unstoppable CEOs. I was an unstoppable CEO until I wasn’t.
And after about 17 years in baseball, I got burnt out in the industry, because it’s a pretty all-encompassing lifestyle. You know, you spend most of your days for six months at the stadium at the ballpark, and I was tired, I got burnt out of having my life dictated by the baseball calendar. And so it really stopped me in my tracks. At about midway through my 17th year, I realized, like, I can’t do this anymore. So I stopped that and began to chart a new path. But I did it in a very strategic way. I took two and a half years to figure out what the next phase of my professional life was going to be and made the move after my 20th season.
So it was a very interesting journey for me personally and professionally, emotionally. And so that’s really, I think, an interesting part of the story that I like to tell because I think, you know, many people get to a point in their life in their career where they feel stuck. And feel like, I don’t know what else to do, I can’t do anything else. This is all I’ve ever known for 20 years. And so I’m sort of like to tell the message that though there can be a second chapter or third chapter, you just have to find that next thing that you’re passionate about and go for it.
Steve: Absolutely. I think that’s, I think you just summed it up right there that that’s, that is being unstoppable. And even when you hit the wall, it’s you know, and you feel that burnout, it’s that, well, the only way out is through. And, you know, and by continuing to move forward. That’s how you stay unstoppable. I mean, that when you boil it down, it just keeps moving. Now, there were probably some things as you approached that challenge.
And as you’ve approached challenges since then, because you’ve now built a successful consulting practice and coaching practice and you’ve worked with a lot of other businesses, and help them become unstoppable. As you’ve done all of that, since baseball, what have you found are some of the keys to just continuing to press forward, because a lot of people don’t do that. They’re presented with the challenge, and they make a decision to stop. So what have you found that keeps you persistent?
Allow Yourself to Depend On Others
Skip: You know, I think it’s a couple of things. One is having a great support system, in your, in your family. Having whatever that family is to you, that believes in you and backs you up and gives you the freedom to be who you want to be. I think it’s really important to nurture that and create that for the other people around you as well make a symbiotic relationship, make sure you always have that to come back to and keep you grounded.
And then that that support group of other professionals who are doing the same thing, just like the mastermind group where we met, you know, to be able to have those professional colleagues and friends who are on a similar path, a similar journey, and who have been there or are going there, you know, with you, in the same time table just to have those people to bounce ideas off of and they get in the habit of check-ins, I think it’s really, I think helped me.
Especially recently, I’ve spent the last four or five years is to have the events that you can go to I mean, I’m going to an event, you know, very, very soon, it’s going to be just surrounded in immersed with people with the same mindset, focusing on the same stuff and reinforcing getting re-energized every couple of months, I would say at least twice a year, you should probably go to some professional development program, you know, might be your industry conference.
It’s always really good to reconnect with friends that are in your industry, learn some new things, see what’s going on in the industry, but getting that environment that can re-energize you and get your report I’ve found it kind of neat that about every six months. And if I do that, that keeps me keeps my head in the game. And there’s plenty of those opportunities, you find the ones that you find are the best fit and have the best, the best environment for you.
Steve: So it really sounds like it all comes down for you to being in relationships. You talked family, you talked about other entrepreneurs, being around other people. It sounds like a lot of what keeps you persistent and unstoppable is having access being plugged into those relationships.
Skip: Yeah, I think relationships are so important. I one of the concepts I wrote about last year in my newest report and white paper, if you want to call it that, is a concept called the business owner’s isolation chamber. And whatever found in working with small business owners last 18 years since I bought baseball, it’s hard to believe I was in baseball for 20 years now I’ve been out for 18 is getting to that point where I’m out as long as I was in almost. What I’ve noticed though a lot of business owners feel like they’re isolated. That they’re the only person feeling the stresses of their company.
And they’re the ones all the weight is on their shoulders for making these decisions. Even if they have a leadership team in place, even if they’re part of a family structure that maybe you know, it’s a family business where they’re collaborating to make decisions, I think the person who’s the managing partner, the head honcho, the CEO president, whatever title they have, that role can be very isolating, it’s lonely at the top type of thing, right? And I think sometimes the business owners create that for themselves. And they get stuck in this thing I call the isolation chamber that actually was coined by one of my clients a few years ago for me.
And so I think we’ve got to open up a little bit and let some other people into that sphere and show a little bit of vulnerability and be a little more humble that you don’t have to have all the answers. That as frightening as it can be to be vulnerable in those situations. Once you do, it’s very freeing. And one of my clients, just recently I’ve been working with the president of a three and a half million dollar manufacturing company, one of the things he said that was so enlightening and powerful for him and our work together.
He says, You know, I don’t have, I finally feel like I have a team of people I can trust to help me make business decisions. Before I just felt like I was just, you know, forced to do it on my own. I couldn’t explain it and nobody would care. And they didn’t want to listen and stuff, it was just very freeing for him to finally see up to five people around the table he could tap into and help him run the company and didn’t have to do it all himself. So I think that’s really important.
Steve: Yeah, I think it’s incredibly powerful. I can think back to all of the big jumps that I’ve had in business where I jumped from one level to another. And they almost all centered around a time when I was investing in getting myself in those sorts of relationships with a mastermind group, or going to a particular type of conference, and getting around the right type of people or getting a particular coach that was going to help, you know, get me out of isolation and get me thinking bigger.
And yeah, I think that’s one of the sorts of hidden secrets of all of this, you know, is having those relationships that will stretch you a little bit actually makes being an entrepreneur easier.
Skip: Yeah, and I think the challenge for all of us at one point or another is just be open to that possibility. Because we do have to open ourselves up. And we do have to be somewhat vulnerable or humble. And I think for many business owners, and maybe men more than women, it’s just sometimes it’s a tough journey to get there. And I think we need to keep sending the message that it’s okay. And it is a safe place. And you’ll come out much better on the other side when you do.
Steve: Absolutely. Well, hey, I think we should take a quick break here. And when we come back, let’s talk about employee engagement. And you’re going to share with us what I think a lot of people will say is it is kind of a controversial approach to that. But I know it’s a powerful approach. And I’m really excited to hear your take on it. And so, folks, we’ll be right back with more from Skip Wiseman.
Hey everybody, welcome back. This is Steve Gordon. And today I talking with Skip Weisman and Skip, you are a master of creating employee engagement, you did it all throughout your baseball career, you have done it for the last 18 years, with the small businesses that you consult with.
And as you were talking with me a month or so ago and kind of telling me your approach to creating engagement and you made the statement, I think that you’ve never found a better way to get employees bought into the success of the company than what you’re about to share with us. So I’m not going to give that away. I’m gonna let you explain it. But kind of start, you know, start from the top and kind of walk us through your thinking on creating engagement.
Company Transparency Creates Employee Drive
Skip: Yeah, that’s thanks for the question. And I gotta sort of take a step back as to how I sort of came upon this in my own way. And then I’ve found an organization that’s doing it at the highest level. When I was in baseball, and so people understand I never played the game, I was a high school baseball dropout, I had 220 in high school, I couldn’t play the game, I got into baseball because I couldn’t play it. And I want to stay close to the game I got into management. So I was CEO for five baseball teams. But I had nothing to do with the player personnel.
Being an affiliated team with a Major League club, they provide all the players. And so my job was business manager. My job was to put butts in seats, keep the beer cold in the bathrooms clean, and keep fans coming back. And there’s a lot to do to make that happen. We’re just like any other small business. And so we needed to have everybody on board to do everything that we need to do to get things done. And we did really well. The second half of my career when we moved to a new city, and new ball new community that never had baseball before we built the brand, new stadium, the community built it for us. And we just struck a nerve.
And we were doing really well we were, our pre-tax profit margin was probably around 25 to 30% of revenues. And so we had some really good money left over at the end. And the owner of the team, my boss was very, very generous. And we gave out some really nice year and bonuses at the end of the season. And I would give these people some checks, and we’re talking bonus check that’s maybe 30% of their annual salary at year-end. But I could never explain to them where this number came from, why this year, they got 7500 next year, they got 7000 or 6500, or whatever. And it’s someone seemed to them kind of arbitrary.
And it was very disconcerting for me to just give them something with no explanation as to where it came. Well, we had a good year, this year, oh, we didn’t have quite a good year last year. But then the number would just seem arbitrary to everybody. And I wanted to be much more transparent with where that number came from. And since I didn’t have full authority to do that, my boss will not let me do it. And so I can only do it. Very general level.
When I left baseball, I said I want to create a system and encourage business owners to be more transparent about how the company makes money, where the revenue goes, and what’s really left at the end of the day. And when you do that, I believe people will be even more engaged. And employee engagement, Steve as you know, these days is just a big buzzword. It’s all over the place. There’s surveys on employee engagement.
Every day with some type of report, Gallup does a big one, the state of the United States America’s workforce report, they put out every year too. Employee engagement is a big buzzword, but three teen years, I’ve been looking for some way to create higher levels of engagement. And what I found most of it is really just surface-level stuff. It’s I necessarily call it gimmicky, but it’s just ways to sort of manipulate people to be more involved in the work environment. But they really don’t know the underpinnings of how the business works.
They don’t understand the finances, they don’t understand financial literacy of how businesses can make money, what you’re, why gross profit is so important. And margins are so important and percentages are important and things like that. And so what I believe is this concept is the ultimate in employee engagement is basically open-book management. And it’s opening the books to employees, and teaching them how the company makes money. and showing them the reality of margins and profit margins and what’s left at the end of the day.
And in taking that to the next step by teaching them financial literacy, and showing them specifically how the person on the front line can drive some of those numbers. And when they do, and we achieve the goals that we set out, you receive a stake in the outcome that you understand, you know where it came from, and it’s very transparent. And I’ve seen transformations in employees when this is implemented. And so it’s a really, really powerful approach. It takes, again, a little getting used to and a shift in mindset and a belief.
And it’s not for everybody. But if the business owner truly wants to get engaged employees get out of that business owner’s isolation chamber. Imagine if you had 50 people or 25 people, whatever’s in your company, all focused in the same way to help you grow your company and everybody participates. It’s really it’s a really powerful process. And I don’t know how much more detail you want me to go into. I’m happy to talk a little bit more if you think it would have value for people.
Steve: Yeah, let’s get into a little bit more detail. But I want to kind of bring people back around to why we would want to do this. If we look at this from a purely numbers perspective for a minute, profit and loss. You refer to the Gallup study, and one of them familiar with it, one of the things that they found is that the leading predictor of growth and profitability across all businesses in all the industries that they study, this was not industry-specific.
The leading predictor of growth and profitability is engagement, is culture. Right? This is, culture seems like it is a very touchy-feely, soft kind of thing, except that it accrues to the bottom line. And that is why I’m glad that you’re here today, sharing all this with us Skip. And that’s why I think it’s important for everybody who is listening to understand the importance of this. That it’s not just something that makes you feel good, or that you know, wins you the, you know, best employer in the city kind of award.
This puts money in your bank account if you do it well. And so, want to make sure we put a really big giant exclamation point on that because for a lot of people don’t know that connection they’re gonna go Okay, I gotta go sell. But right. Now you make money. So with that as kind of background to it.
I will tell you, there are business owners that just heard what you said about being more transparent and sharing things and financial stuff. They’re shaken right now, air the death of that, and I’ll be honest, you know, there’s parts of me that are hesitant. So you know, but I trust you, and you’re here. And so preach to us.
Skip: Well, the best way I can preach, I guess, give you a real-life example of a client. So small business, eight employees, maybe nine, I think with the business owner there, they were originally doing run $800- $900,000, before the meltdown in 2008-2009. When they came to me in 2012, they had dropped their revenue down to $650,000, 660, something like that. They were bleeding cash, their receivables were out of control, and the owner was stressed. And I said to him, and he was ready to fire a couple of employees who were being insubordinate and unaccountable and everything.
And he said, Can you help me? I said well, I don’t know. But let’s talk. And I went in, I did a whole cultural assessment. I talked to all the employees. And what I found was that the business owner was a very nice guy and meant well, was not communicating effectively. He was sending mixed messages. And he was difficult. He was cheap. They thought he was cheap. Right? He was too frugal, he would never spend a dime. He was preaching safety as one of their core tenants. But he was nickel and diming people to get their trucks repaired the bad guys out on the road, service technicians.
So imagine you’re preaching safety, but you’re not allowing the technicians to service their trucks, right? And so the trucks are not as safe as they could be. So it was really incongruent to there. So we need to be a little more transparent. And he was afraid because the business was in trouble. And he was saying, Well, one of my employees see how we’re in desperate places, they’re going to look for other jobs, they’re going to leave me then I’m out of business. I said trust me, these people have been with you for 10, 12, 14 years, they have a lot invested in this company as well, I guarantee they will step up when they help you build the business back.
Once they know the reality. We open the books, we showed them that 50% of the revenue was going to salaries and benefits. And the other 50% was tied up in receivables It was 60, 90, 120 days past due. So once they saw that they said, oh, god no wonder why Gary is so stressed, and why he’s so tight with money. And we ended up turning around the company by getting employees engaged in line item issues. So we gave the head technician who was insubordinate and argumentative. We gave him the budget for the truck maintenance.
We need some certainty in the truck maintenance right now it’s willy nilly, we don’t know what it’s going to be and Gary’s crazy. Let’s create a budget. Sean, go to with the bookkeeper. Review the last five years of maintenance expenditures, review your trucks this year as to what maintenance has been performed and projected budget for next year. 30 days later, Sean comes back to Gary and me and he says, you know, we amortize our trucks every five years and we replaced them every five years.
Here’s our budget for next year. If we, I believe if we invest 200, maybe $200 more in truck maintenance each year, we can get seven years out of the trucks instead of five. Now think about that. An employee who nobody thought cared about the business comes back 30 days later thinking feeling and acting like the owner. Making suggestions. So we implemented things like that and gave people more responsibility for a line item on the financial statement. And they stepped up over four years, this company didn’t just get back to where it was. It surpassed a million dollars in revenue last year.
For the first time after four years, they grew 50% in four years, because he had a team of eight people engaged in building the company. And the best part of the story is Gary, the owner of the company, the last three years, has spent most of his time training for marathons and triathlons. While people run the company for him, and he checks in two, three days a week. That’s what can happen when you open the books and you trust people with the numbers.
Steve: So what are the objections that come up to this when you’re talking with business owners? I mean, you shared one, but what are the other objections that come up?
Reasons People Have a Hard Time Adopting These Methods
Skip: You know, the big thing is that people don’t care. To they won’t understand it’s too complicated. And most business owners say that because they’re not exactly up to speed on how the business finances work because nobody’s really taught them either. They just, you know, they get with their accountant, accountant, throw some numbers at them. And so they’re uncomfortable with it. And then they think, well, if the employees see the real thing, they’re going to know how much money I’m making. Yeah, well, they may.
But you know what, it’s, they’re already thinking you’re taking, you’re making a boatload of money. And you’re probably not, they’re probably fantasizing that it’s a lot more than it really is. And so being transparent will build trust with your people. So those are the things that people get involved with. Now, though, there’s different levels of transparency. And we don’t want to get too open too soon, because it will overwhelm people.
And so we’ll start with the basics, we may just keep all the general administrative expenses in one line item for GMA expenses. And the reason why we would do that is because some of those are fixed expenses, and we can’t do anything about it. Right? The rent is the rent, right? The utilities are the utilities. And so if an employee can’t help drive the number, there’s no sense in really worrying about it. We may show it to them just for explanation when we try and keep it simple. So salaries are all going to be on one salary line. Right?
Steve: Can I stop you for a second here? You said something really important that I’d like for you to just repeat for everyone. You said that if the employee can’t drive the number, that there’s no point in worrying about it. The goal here is to get the employees to take ownership of the dollars and cents flowing through the business and have them drive the result around those dollars and cents. Is that not correct?
Skip: Exactly right.
Steve: So that’s a key dot I want to make sure we connect, I find that this isn’t just to share and be inclusive and transparent. And all those crazy words that are thrown around these days like this, get them to own it and create a bigger result because they own it.
Transforming Companies With Employee Accountability
Skip: Exactly, and so will create an overarching goal for the company that’s based on what’s called a critical number. And that’s the number we need to achieve. Because that’s going to make the biggest difference for everybody. And that’s the overarching number. And then what we’ll do is we’ll take that down, and we’ll break that down into a department. And each department will have their critical number that will feed into the critical, the main critical number. And now you’ve got each department working on their particular area that drives those line items. And then it comes down to the employee.
And now we look at Okay, what do I have to do to drive the number in my department that will drive the bigger number? And everybody sees a direct line of sight between their daily actions and achieving success for the annual goal. And that is all then moves into the program. That’s called the stake in the outcome. And we create a bonus program that is based on achieving those results. And usually in the first few years to keep it simple. We will do profit before tax.
And there’s also a threshold that we have to meet because one of the main goals of this that the employees really like is that this gives the business owner and employees structure to make maintain the success and sustainability of the company. So the main thing we want to protect is job security and the viability of the company long term. So we’re going to take that profitable, we’re tax, and we’re going to put a rainy day fun together for the downturn in the economy that’s going to come at some point. We’re going to put money away for capital expenditures. We’re going to put money away for things that we need before we pay the bonus out.
So most companies, bonuses are not structured in a way that gives people a lot of comfort. And they’re sort of put together arbitrarily, and we just pick a number out of the hat that we think we can share. So that stuff’s going to be taken care of. And then the bonus pool comes out of that. And then there’s a committee, what we call the design team that decides among themselves, which is company leadership, and different department heads and some people from the front lines will be part of the design team, that will make the decision as to how much of the final bonus pool will be shared and in what way.
And so it’s very transparent, but the everyday people are making the decisions, in conjunction with their colleagues and their co-workers. And its people will see a direct line of sight between what they do, how they drive the numbers, and what quote, their stake in the outcome is, and it’s a really empowering program.
Steve: I can imagine. I mean, it takes an employee from, you know, simply showing up and clocking in their time. Right to it when it is implemented well and rolled out properly. I would imagine it then takes them to a place where they’re now you know, they’re now operating in more of the results economy.
And they were they’re getting, they understand how their compensation and their success is determined by the results that they produce collectively as a company, and I guess done well, it’s got a role all the way down to, you know, the particular technician, let’s say and what they do today, and how that rolls into the monthly and quarterly and annual production.
Skip: Absolutely. I had one business owner share with me a story where he said, You know, when I when we first started this program, and I got into this, I would walk around the shop and I would see these little products that we use to serve our customers with their $3 $4 $6 cost to us, I’d see them lying all around the shop, I might see some in the trash can or they’d be laying around in the back of their trucks.
And my service manager came to me about six months after we started this program. He said you know, I don’t see those things laying around anymore. People were taking care of them, and they’re putting them away now. It’s little things like that. It’s Sean and that story, I told you with Gary and Sean, at the holiday party, Sean came to me and said so what do you learn in the last year we work together?
He said, You know, I was always resentful of Gary not giving me more money and giving me a greater role in the company. And when I realized and doing this process was that if I want a bigger role in this company, I have to help create it for myself and help Gary create the opportunity for me because I can’t expect him to just give it to me.
Steve: How powerful is that?
Skip: It was one of the greatest holiday gifts I ever received to hear him say that. That’s where he got out of our work together.
Steve: That’s what we all want from our team members, we all hope that they will come with that kind of care. And you know, it’s easy as a business owner, you take all the stress you’re living in what did you call it? The entrepreneur’s isolation chamber? Yep. Yeah, I mean, you’re living in there. And that can kind of work your mind a little bit.
But by and large, I found that, you know, all the team members that I’ve had work with me over the years, that if they got to the point where they got hired, they were probably pretty good humans anyway. Yes. And, you know, and so we never had anybody that was what I would consider, I don’t know, spiteful or working against us or any other, we’re all good people, but maybe we need to enable them to achieve all that they can achieve.
Skip: Yeah, and I say if that’s happening, it’s not really their fault. They haven’t been shown the way. They haven’t been asked to step up in a particular way. And it’s not their fault. And we just have to give them the opportunity. I think when you do that, people will surprise you. It’s not always for everybody. Some people don’t like the accountability. And that’s one thing, you know, people are always asking me, you know, I need more accountability.
People just not accountable anymore. The younger generation, they don’t care. And I think that’s just bull. We have to give them systems in a process and a reason to care and be accountable. And it’s not just because you just keep nagging at them and harping on them. And if you give them the right tools, and this is a tool to use and the right system, people will surprise you and step up in ways you never imagined.
Steve: Well, when you create when you thoughtfully create the measurements that, you know, we talked before about, you know, whatever, you know, Bob does today contributes to the annual goal and the profitability and the reward that associates with that, right? Well, if what Bob has to do today is a measurable thing that’s tracked in a transparent way, right? The accountability now becomes pretty easy.
And I think it You tell me if I’m wrong, this is the thought that popped in my head is that the accountability then moves out of the hands of the business owner, the CEO, and it moves to Bob’s team members who are now going to get hey look, buddy. We gotta step it up. You know, or he’ll see himself if he’s a good human that wants to do well, and strives to do well, you’ll see gosh, I fell a little bit short. I need to get some help. You know?
Skip: Yeah, exactly. And, you know, again, that’s not for everybody, because some people want to hide, some people want to just kind of, you know, do work and be below the radar screen. And so some of those people are going to be uncomfortable in this environment. And they will self-select out, I think that’s a good thing.
Steve: Yeah you don’t want that on your team either.
Skip: Right. And so be okay with that. And it but it’s going to probably be their choice before, it’s your choice. And that’s okay.
Steve: Wow, this is powerful stuff Skip. Thank you for sharing this with us. I know that there are a lot of layers to this. And these are probably not waters that you want to tread into without a guide to kind of get you around the rapids and the rocks and all of that. And so I know you you’ve got some resources for folks, where they can begin to kind of wrap their head around this and go a little bit deeper. And of course, I want to make sure they know where to get in touch with you if they’re looking for that guide. So where can they kind of find some additional resources to expand their thinking on this?
Skip: Yeah, well, my website is yourchampionshipcompany.com. And there’s a web page. This concept was called the Great Game of Business. And it was started by a gentleman by the name of Jack Stack in Springfield, Missouri and a manufacturing firm back in the 1980s. This has been going on for 35 years. And so it’s a great game of business. So if you go to yourchampionshipcompany.com/greatgame you can actually download a free version of the original book that started this and explains the story behind it.
And how Jack Stack, the author came up with the concept. It’s an amazing story because he had to buy his division. He was the general manager of a division of International Harvester, and they were going to sell the company and liquidate basically. And he was 28 years old. And he said, No, I got 115 people in this manufacturing floor, that’s livelihoods are on the line, including my own. I want to buy the company. And he went to the International Harvester negotiate with International Harvester on the open market, you can only raise $100,000, and the sale price was 9 million. They took an $8.9 million note.
They found the 50th bank that they applied to somehow gave them the lone and was only $100,000 of equity. And so it’s an amazing story in this whole concept was created from that because Jack needed help making the banknote every month. And so the whole concept was created from that it’s a great story. It really talks about the fundamentals of what we do and how it works. And that’s a great, that’s the best place to start to see how this works. So the audiobook is free at my website, at yourchampionshipcompany.com/greatgame. And there’s a bunch of other resources there on my website that they can tap into there.
Steve: Awesome. Yeah, I think that’s a great place to start. And of course, if they want to get in touch with you about maybe looking to implement this in their own company, they can contact you there.
Skip: Yeah, yeah, there’s a contact booking form right on the webpage. My phone number’s right at the top of the webpage, so yep.
Steve: Perfect. Well Skip thank you so much for investing a little bit of time with me today for sharing all of your wisdom with our audience. These are really powerful ideas. And I’m just grateful that you’ve invested some time today. Thank you.
Skip: Yeah, thanks Steve it’s been great speaking with you and I look forward to continuing our relationship. This was great. Thanks so much.