Jonathan Keyser | Collaboration + Community Instead of Competition

Do you have to be cutthroat to be successful in business? No, says Jonathan Keyser, not even in the most competitive industries. 

He knows from personal experience. For a long time, he was ruthless as he built his commercial real estate career. But he was also miserable and knew there had to be another way.  

When he started helping others… being of service… he was more successful than others. He shares how he formed this philosophy and how it works in the real world, as well as…

  • The three parts of transforming your business with selfless service
  • How he’s transforming the commercial real estate industry
  • Where to find your “community” – and how to help them
  • The best way to get the most valuable referrals
  • And more

Listen now…

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Steve Gordon: Welcome to the Unstoppable CEO Podcast. I’m your host, Steve Gordon, and I am really excited for today’s episode. I have got just an incredible guest today who is going to talk with us about a topic that I don’t think we talk about enough in business. But it’s, I think it is maybe the overarching topic that will ultimately make you successful. So today I am talking with Jonathan Kaiser, he is the inspiring founder and thought leader behind Kaiser, the largest commercial real estate tenant brokerage firm in Arizona, and one of the fastest-growing in the country. He’s got a really great model for selfless service.

And I just find that it resonates. As I looked into what he was doing really resonated with me and with the way we approach things, I think it will with you also. And he’s the best selling author of You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win. He’s a speaker who contributes to the media is interviewed all over the place. Just has done some really remarkable thinking on this topic. And so Jonathan, I’m really excited that you’re here today. Thanks for investing a little time with me.

Jonathan Keyser: It is my pleasure. Thank you for having me on.

Story of a Philanthropist

Steve: Well, before we dive into the details, I would love for you to share a little bit more about your background. I mean, we hit some highlights in your bio, but what got you to this stage of your career? And what made you an expert on selfless service?

Jonathan: Haha, I love that question. Well, first of all, I don’t ever claim to be an expert in anything. But I do have a lot of bumps, bruises and scars. And I learned the hard way, you know, so for me, I was raised by parents that taught me to love and serve and give and help go above and beyond for other people and pay it forward. And all those things that probably many of you out there, either were taught or teach your kids. And yet my parents were very poor. So deep inside of me, I had this association with selfless service helping other people and being broke.

And so I got into commercial real estate brokerage because a friend of mine said I could be wealthy. And that’s all I was really caring about was making money. And as I got into commercial estate brokerage, I realized really quickly Wow, this is a ruthless cutthroat industry. And everyone was scratching, clawing and fighting to get the way to the top. And I thought, okay, if this is what it takes to be successful, I’m in. So I became arguably the most ruthless broker out there because I’m an overachiever, Steve. But I was miserable. I was misaligned with my core values. And I hated who I was becoming. And then 15 years ago, I go to this conference.

And I tend this nondescript sounding breakout session called networking, which sounded like the easiest one to sleep through. And I was blown away by the speaker who talked about a different way of doing business, talked about success by helping others succeed. Long story short, I investigated, it turned out to be authentic. And I said, Wow, if this is even possible. I want this to meet me. So I came back to Arizona, where I’m from, I tore my existing sales-oriented business plan up. And I went to work helping as many people in the marketplace as I could. I got involved with all kinds of business and nonprofit organizations. I would ask everybody, I bumped into him at networking events, I would say, How can I help you? What do you need?

And over a long time took about five years, I reinvented myself from a ruthless cutthroat broker to someone who’s focused on helping others. And then the crazy part is after that five year period, I started getting all kinds of unsolicited referrals. And that gave me more to help other people with and it just took off. And I went from laughing stock at the firm, I was at the top producer. And then in the summer of 2012, I had an epiphany, where I realized that what I’d stumbled across, actually had the opportunity to transform an entire industry. And then as I thought even bigger, I realized, wow, we’re not the only ruthless industry, this actually has the opportunity to transform the business world. And I got excited. And I said, you know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna affect that change.

And so I left, my old firm left millions of dollars on the table, and I started Keyser. And today, we’re the largest firm of our kind in the state and one of the fastest-growing in the country. And everything for us is about succeeding by helping others succeed. Success through selfless service. And, and it’s been quite the journey, quite the ride, I wrote the book, to show other people how they could do it too, right? My goal is to be inspirational, but also instructional, within my book, You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win, I give every tidbit both, you know, hard-learned stuff that I’ve made that I learned by making mistakes and failing, as well as the stuff that I did, right.

And anybody that wants to create a culture of selfless service within their own organization, I teach them how to do it. And again, that connection is success through selfless service. Everybody kind of knows you’re supposed to help others, but very few people believe that that’s actually a way to achieve financial rewards and success in business. And I’m living proof that that’s possible. And my vision is, is to take that to the world, turn Keyser into a billion-dollar company that completely transforms and reinvents the commercial real estate industry.

And that becomes a motivator, it becomes an example. It becomes something that other people can copy and emulate, which is why, you know, I worked on this book for so long and so hard and finally released it, it’s, I really feel like it captures the message of what I’m trying to share with the world.

Persistence Through Adversity

Steve: Well, as amazing as that vision is, you alluded to it earlier and in the first part of your story that this was a change for you. And that change couldn’t have been easy. I’m sure there were a lot of people around you that were saying you can’t do business that way in this industry, you’re, you know, you’re going to fail. You know, we talked on the show a lot about being unstoppable. You know, when we talk about the unstoppable CEO, a lot of people make the mistake they think I’m describing myself. I’m actually not.

I’m describing all of the CEOs that we want to be a hero to in small businesses across the country, because I have such deep respect for them and how they’ve stayed unstoppable. So you had to, there had to be people who were telling you absolutely can’t do this. And you had to persist through that. How did you do it?

Jonathan: It’s a great question. So. And I get asked that a lot because people in the journey want to know, is this really possible for me, right? Is this something I could actually do? Is this just some guy talking and it’s good for him, but it’s not practical to me. And so part of what I am very clear on in the book is what it really took. And how would summarize the answer to your question is kind of threefold. Number one, had an example of someone else in business that had done it before. So I think that’s the first key is having an example that you can follow that says, somebody else has done it, I can, too.

I have that. Number two, there’s a word that people describe me with. And it’s called resilience, right? And so it was brutal. It was utterly brutal to be you know, I was on the fast track. I was national Rookie of the Year for Grubb and Ellis’s people thought I was going places. And then all of a sudden, I come back from a conference. And I, and then people thought I hit my head, you know? I’m just doing, like, I turned into like a free community concierge, and people like, what the hell happened to Jonathan, like, What is he doing?

So I had to have incredible resilience, and the willingness to continue pushing something forward, in the face of, you know, no success out of it. No inherently obvious, even traction in the marketplace. And, you know, and it was tough, and everybody lost faith in me. And even my wife at the time was like, hey, Jonathan, you’re smart, and you work really hard. Why are we so broke? It’s like, trust me, I’m up to something. So you know, resilience was the key. And if I could just say the third, which is, you got to have all three, in my opinion. I mean, you don’t have to have the first one. But man it sure helps. But you certainly need resilience. And then the third is, I really wanted this to work.

Like, I was so sick of being ruthless that the idea that I didn’t have to be that way. And the idea that he shared with me that, wow, I could actually be even more successful, if I just focused on helping other people. So for me, I saw the practical rational side of it, too. And it was something that resonated deep. So for me, it became like a deep mission. A, you know, sort of a, it was beyond just the rational mind. It resonated with me at a heart level. And, you know, I think that that’s one of the keys because people that don’t really want to help other people that just want to do it as a tactic. People can smell that a mile away. Right?

So, one, I had an example to I refuse to give up, you know. Winston Churchill never ever, ever, ever, ever give up. That was my mindset, even in the darkest times, you know, five years sounds like, well, it’s not that long. Dude, when you’re three and a half years in, and you are not making any money, and everybody thinks you’re a nut job, that’s not very fun. Right? So you have to have staying power to do anything great. But then number three, I think the only reason I was able to withstand the, you know, the pain of the transformation is because it resonated with me on such a deep level.

Steve: Yeah, I imagine. I mean, you just talked about like being in the, you know, three and a half years into this five-year transformation. And it’s easy to say that now you can say, you know, when you say it like that, the way I think we all hear it and perceive it as Oh, he’s more than halfway through, he’s got this no big deal. But when you’re at that point in the journey, and you don’t know that five years is the finish line, because that’s the way I think a lot of these transformations are that we go through in business that we have to persist through.

We don’t know where the finish line is. Totally, you know, so having the faith that I’m going to stay the course. I mean, it to me, that takes a tremendous amount of belief, that’s what I’m hearing from you that, were there things that you did to sort of reinforce that belief to keep you going and sustain you on that journey.

Jonathan: You know, my daily, I am statements, reminding myself of where I was going. But in general, it was just pure grit. It was just grit, and slugging it out. Now, I will say that I had lots of many wins in the sense of, I loved what I started to experience as I helped people. I loved the, I really, really enjoyed seeing what I was doing to help others. And in fact, that was the part that kind of surprised me, because I’d always had kind of a chip on my shoulder against helping other people. But now I found myself loving doing it. But that didn’t translate to my money, right?

So it’s like one of those things where it feels good, but you’re still broke, everybody’s making fun of you, the people that aren’t doing it your way, are killing it. And you’re like, gosh, I just gotta hang on, I gotta hang on, I could feel it. I know, it’s gonna work. So yeah, I would say that it was just sheer determination. And even on the other side, as I look back, I sometimes can’t believe I made it through. Right? And the whole point of my company now is, I learned a lot in that process.

And today, when we bring people over, you know, we’re expanding nationally, and opening up offices and markets all across the country in North America. As we expand, it’s not imagine me pitching this to brokers, okay, here’s the deal, you’re going to come over, you’re gonna make no money for five years, everyone’s gonna think you’re crazy, but you’ll begin to do something very, very meaningful. They’d be like, screw you, man. I don’t want to be a part of that.

Steve: So everybody lined up to sign up for that?

Jonathan: Weird, right? So one of the things we’ve done, and the reason we’ve grown so quickly, as we figured out how to fast track it, and a lot of it is by leveraging what I’ve already done to help others. And so everything that I developed, I give away to everybody in our organization, and then they’re doing it back to everyone else. And so it’s great. It’s a really, really neat culture where not only are we doing that externally, but we’re doing it internally. But yeah, I mean, to be the pioneer was brutal.

Steve: Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine. Well, let’s take a quick break. I want to come back and I want to talk more about not just how you push through, but I want to really get into the approach that you take and the selfless service model that you’re building your business on, and that you talk about in your book. So we’re going to be right back with more from Jonathan Kaiser. Hey, everyone, this is Steve Gordon, welcome back.

Jonathan’s Selfless Service Model

And I’m talking with Jonathan Kaiser. And, Jonathan, let’s dive into this selfless service model that you introduced to us in the first part of the interview. To just like, from the high level, I mean, I think everybody maybe understands what that means. But from a high level, how do you define it? And how have you put it into practice in your business?

Jonathan: Oh, it’s a great question. So here’s the thing about service, a couple of kinds of housekeeping items. Number one, service always has to be a choice. So if anybody’s telling you, you have to do something, you’re no longer in service. And I think that’s really important for anybody listening. It’s just because you want to help others doesn’t mean anybody gets to tell you how, where or who. So that’s a very, very important component is this doesn’t turn you into a slave. One of the great books on this topic is Adam Grant’s book, Give and Take, and what he describes his people in three different categories, givers, matchers and takers.

And what’s interesting about the book is he says that givers, which make up a small percentage of the population, they tend to be on polar opposite ends of the success spectrum. They’re both the most successful and the least successful. And the book solves for why. And his answer is, and this is summarized, but his answer is, the ones that are, that can’t say no, that just allow people to, you know, say, do this from a do this, for me, tend to be taken advantage of by takers, and do not end up being successful. The ones that are very strategic and thoughtful about how and who they serve, are the successful ones.

So the way that I like to teach people how to look at it is, number one, you don’t have to go be crazy, like me, and completely upend your entire life go broke, get mocked, and then somehow magically make it at the end of the tunnel. That’s not what I’m describing at all. What I am describing, this is what we teach today. And this is how we have people, you know, succeeding so quickly at our firm, is, whatever you are going to already be doing in whatever industry you’re already in, instead of looking at it from, you know, in this interaction, I need to get blank, I need to get hired, I need to get I need to convince them of this or whatever it is.

In those interactions instead think, what does this person really need? How can I really get to know them? And figure out what’s really bugging them? What’s a pain point? Where are the things that are right now distracting them in their brains as they’re trying to focus on this conversation with me? How do I get those out? How do I figure out if there’s ways that I can help those? And when you do those simple little things, it’s amazing how the world shifts, Steve, I mean, it’s, that’s when you really become the unstoppable CEO, that’s when you really become the unstoppable fill in the blank.

Insurance broker, attorney, real estate agent. Because if you’re so focused on what that other person across the table needs from you instead of what you need from them. And if you’re really willing to open up your resources, and I’m not talking about money, I’m talking about relationships. I’m talking about expertise. Ways that are not selfless service is not something where you say, Hey, you know, I make money like my firm, right? We’re the largest tenant firm, we represent companies across all industries, helping them, negotiate real estate leases, buy buildings, lease buildings.

For me, selfless services, not meeting with the prospective client and saying, hey, let me help you with your real estate deal. It’s like, well, no shit. But that’s not what we’re talking about. Selfless service is helping them in ways that aren’t something that directly compensate you. Right? It’s looking for the real needs and creating real relationships. What I believe is that we all know how to love, we all know how to serve, we all know how to give, because we do that in our family lives do that in our social circles. We do that in our churches, we do that in our community centers, etc, etc. And then we get out of the business.

And we truly, fundamentally believe that we have to be ruthlessly to win. And so we put on our tough suits, and we go fight, fight fight. And the reality is, I believe that’s not necessary. And we’re proving that every single day in an industry that’s known for the opposite. So service becomes this thing that unlocks relationships. It you know, talking about Stephen Covey’s Speed to Trust, it creates extraordinary speed of trust. And it has to come. Most importantly, it has to come from an authentic place. This isn’t something that you can game, I tried gaming it for a while and my personal transformation.

You can’t game this, because people can sense that. Really good bs monitors out there, you know? They can tell if you’re just trying to manipulate them. And so that’s the hardest part we launched the Keyser Institute to train, empower, and certify the next generation of selfless leader. And we talked about in my book, we talked about three levels of reinvention and reinvention from the inside out.

Self, then company, and then community. And you know, while that sounds straightforward and simple, I give lots of how-to tactical examples, because this stuff is simple on the surface, but complex in the implementation, particularly when we’re also trained to do the opposite. So so much of what I’m doing every day is counterintuitive to what you’ve learned at sales classes, or networking meetings, or whatever. I’m doing, almost literally most of the time, the opposite of what other people are doing.

But it creates extraordinary relationships, creates ordinary success, and our success proves that. And so that’s the whole point of the story. That’s the point of the book is, it’s not about me, it’s about you. You can do this too. And I’m just an example of someone that was just crazy enough to try it. And now I’ve written everything down that I’ve learned in my book, You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win, so that you can do it for yourself.

Authenticity is Essential

Steve: You mentioned that you can’t really fake this, like it’s difficult to do. And I would imagine that the reason for that is that doing this well requires energy. And if you’re faking it, if you’re not really into it, because you want to do it, it’s all about the outcome that it probably becomes too draining in terms of energy and becomes unsustainable.

Jonathan: Very much so. I mean, you have, it’s hard enough when you love people and want to help them to be doing that all day long. There was a point before I started my firm when I was still working at a traditional firm, I didn’t actually hired a driver, I was so busy, I was thinking how to get more time. And I realized that if I just have somebody driving me around all day, between my six or seven meetings, I could work in the backseat on WiFi and, you know, double my productivity. So I hired this. My younger cousin’s friend, he was working at Starbucks, and I said, hey, what if I pay a couple grand a month?

Would you like to drive me around? So I’m sitting in the backseat of my car. And what that enabled me to do was quickly start doing my acts of service. And one day, you know, you kind of just, it adds up, you don’t really think about it one day, I realized that I should probably count what I was doing. And I saw that I had done just that day I’d done 50 acts of service five, zero. So if you think about that, here I am doing real estate deals, right? Because that’s, that’s my job. That’s how I make my money is on the real estate.

I’m meeting with six to eight people a day. And in between, I’m trying to figure out every meeting I have, I try to find three to five ways I can selflessly help that person. As soon as I get in my car, I’m cranking these help things out, get to my next meeting, do it all over again. In the meantime, I’m taking phone calls. And so you know, it was, that would have been very unsustainable if I didn’t actually enjoy helping people. And people would have realized that it wasn’t authentic, so wouldn’t have had the impact, which would have been double discouraging. So if you’re out there, and you don’t really give a shit about people stop listening now because this isn’t for you.

The other thing I would say is, this is not an instant gratification play. This is the long game, if you want long term sustainable success, that’s my, that’s what I teach. Too many people are trying to look for the quick kit, this isn’t a quick kit. When I heard about this philosophy, it was described to me in this way, when I was at that breakout session, it was described as this. Currently, Jonathan, you’re hunting. You’re getting your gun off the big game gun off the shelf, you’re shooting prey, skinning it cooking and eating it.

And then you have to get up and do it all over again, what this was described as farming and specifically like trees, right, like, I have a citrus tree in my backyard here in Arizona. And the thing when he was a baby, it was, you know, I got nothing out of it. And it was a pain in the butt and had to do all kinds of watering and pounding the citrus steaks and making sure it was prune and making sure was getting enough sun etc. And I got nothing out of it. But today, the things almost a nuisance and I get, I get so many lemons, I can’t give them away fast enough. And so that’s the idea is when you really invest in people in relationships, unless we go to a world where AI does everything, and humans are not involved in relationships, no longer matter.

Where relationships matter, the best way, in my humble opinion, to create extraordinary success. And to get people to join you in whatever you’re trying to get them to join you in doing is to focus on, what do they really need? How can I really help them? How do I put their needs ahead of my own? And when you do that, you unlock them, you create amazing deep relationships, and all they want to do is help you back because everybody is tired of being sold. Everybody’s tired of being manipulated, everybody’s tired of being tired of the fake, you know? Someone that just wants to help them is so authentic, it’s so refreshing.

And it makes you want to be around them more it makes you want to engage with them more makes you trust them. And so that’s the whole point, this is rational, this isn’t like, go do good, because it’s the right thing to do. If you don’t already know that we got a bigger problem. It’s like this is doing good, helping other people service first. I like to say selfless service is selfish. Selfless service is self-interested.

So from that perspective, if we can love and serve and help others, and oh, by the way, create extraordinary success for ourselves, then, what an amazing type of business that we can have. What an amazing success story we can create. And we do need, we need more people to do this with us.

Steve: Yeah, you know, you mentioned that this is kind of a long term. It’s almost an investment that you’re making. And I’m at the point. I mean, as we’re recording this, I’m 48 years old, I’m at the point where I’m only interested in things that allow me to play the long game now. Yeah, absolutely. Do I want results as fast as I can get them? Of course. But if I have to sacrifice the long term, bigger future, for that, I’m not interested, because I know that that’s a losing strategy. And, you know, a lot of people will hear that.

And I find people who are at the beginning of the business, they struggle with that because they got to eat right? You know, and, and they’re in that early mode, and they haven’t built up a clientele yet, and they’ve got to eat, but you know, they see these things, and they want to play that longer game. But you know, the reality of life is you got to support yourself somehow. But that should be a temporary circumstance for most entrepreneurs, you can quickly with effort and activity get to a point where you’ve got your basic needs met. And quicker you get there, the easier it becomes to play this long game.

Jonathan: Can I offer a counter-intuitive you to what you just said?

Steve: Yeah, absolutely.

Jonathan: I think that is the standard wisdom. And I don’t think it’s necessarily even wrong, I just have a different perspective. My perspective is, if you’re new, if you have a relatively young business, or you’re newer to your industry, or you’re still trying to break in, or whatever it is, my message is actually don’t go be ruthless or do whatever you feel like you need to do to put money on the table. And then go try to be selfless. What I’m saying is the fastest route to success is by selflessly serving others. Now again, it’s not saying go be like Jonathan Keyser and go completely reinvent yourself and do nothing related to anything but helping other people.

I’m not saying that. But I’m saying you’re if already going to be doing sales calls, if you’re already going to be meeting with prospective clients, if you’re already going to be you know, making phone calls to people that you want to develop a strategic partnership with, or whatever it is, at the end of the day, the way that you’re going to get them to want to work with you the fastest is if you bring a spirit, if you bring a mindset if you bring an approach, that’s all about helping them first and foremost. And that to me is the way that you get the wheel really churning.

That’s what we do at Keyser. And that’s why we’re so successful. It’s, I bring in a lot of young people. And you know, commercial real estate brokerage is not an easy business to break into, there are a lot. I mean, it’s a lot of it’s like the financial services industry. One out of 10 survive, and those have tons of scars. And that’s just kind of the way that it’s always been. And usually, you don’t see a lot of success for a number of years. We bring people in, teach them the Kaiser way, get them serving, get them loving and helping other people that are our prospective clients. And you’d be amazed at how fast they bridge the gap.

And these are people that are experienced leaders, you know, CEOs that they’re, you know, meeting with that have dealt with real estate people forever, that have a huge distrust for anybody in commercial real estate, and rightfully so most the time. And we’re able to create an amazing relationship quickly because we bring a different spirit of service. So my mindset is, if you’re young, even better, man, learn by my book, absorb it. I give lots of additional recommendations for other books, become it, and then go utilize it. And I think you’ll be amazed at how quick it drives the financial results for what you’re trying to accomplish.

Steve: Yeah, I totally agree. In fact, and I’m glad you jumped in there because you said it way better than what I was saying. But absolutely. I’m a big believer in working short term and long term at the same time. And what you just described is doing exactly that. And so I’m so glad you clarified, that’s why you’re the expert.

Jonathan: I don’t know about expert, but thanks for letting me I just think this is the most important point of my message, right? It’s like, one of the guys that works for me, that’s a founder Blake said, you know, back in the day, I used to think that I had to go work really hard for 35 years, retire, and then I would give back. And what I love about Keyser is, is I’m doing both at the same time. And I think that’s cool.

Motivation to Start Taking Positive Action

Steve: Yeah, that’s you’ve compressed the time. And that becomes powerful just by itself. You allow people to do things that they thought they couldn’t do, the way that you’re doing them. So, as folks listen to this, I always like to, you know, podcasts are interesting things, right? So they can listen to us talking, and absorb this and nod their heads and go, I really, really need to do that. And that’s great and everything.

And then they get to wherever they’re going. If they’re listening in the car and they turn the car off or they’re at the gym and their workouts over. They turn off the podcast. And then what? So how do we bridge that gap for folks that are listening? How do we get them into action most quickly? What’s the most important thing that they could do now to start down the path?

Jonathan: You bet. So first thing that this is, of course, this is self-serving because I want people to read my book. But if this message resonates with you, and you’re thinking how the hell would I even do this, that’s why I wrote the book. Buy the book, read the book, we have a Keyser Institute with tons of free resources that you could utilize. We have a, you know, reinvention roadmap, we have all kinds of things on, as far as resources for you.

But the thing that I would say as far as what’s that quick action step that you could take right now is, look in your calendar, don’t crash. But look in your calendar and see what’s your next interaction with another human. And for that interaction, decide that you’re going to spend the entire thing focused on them not thinking about what you’re trying to get out of it, not thinking about what you need, but just trying to get to know them, ask really good questions, understand their pain points, figure out where they have needs, and then use every resource in your capacity to help them.

And again, I’m not talking money, I’m not talking about giving people money. Service is non-monetary, in my opinion, you could always give money. But that’s not what I’m describing. I’m talking about ways that you can help people, whether it’s introductions, whether it’s helping people get connectivity to employment, whether it’s helping people with, you know, a medical issue, there’s anything that the person is struggling with.

They typically have if you’re a good listener, and if you care, you already have the skill set. You know how to help them. So take the next meeting on your calendar and say, Okay, I’ll try with that crazy Jonathan Keyser set for this one meeting, no other meeting. Let me just try it for one. And I think you’ll be amazed at what occurs in that meeting when you’re not there selling turns out great, you are trying to figure out what you’re going to get out of it. And all you are is focused on them trying to help them.

Steve: I love it. May I give you some feedback?

Jonathan: Yeah.

Steve: Don’t ever say that plugging your book is self-serving. And let me tell you why I believe that. You spend an awful lot of time downloading all of your wisdom and all of your experiences into a book that somebody can I don’t know what you haven’t priced at. But I’m going to guess somewhere less than $20 probably. And so for the trivial investment of $20, someone can get a window into all of your experience, and all of your wisdom. And, and yeah, you got to pay for the printing and the paper and all that. And that’s mostly where most of the $20 goes. You’re probably not getting rich off that book.

But you but you’ve created the opportunity for someone to get an awful lot of value for a measly $20. And so, folks, go get the book. I mean, you’ve heard a little bit of a preview of it here. It’s absolutely outstanding and get it and dive into it. There, I look at books like this. If I find one little nugget that connects with another idea that’s floating around in my brain and out of that little chemical reaction, you know, something new sparks.

I not only made my money but I probably hundred x or thousand x my investment in that book. That’s how powerful those ideas usually are. When you get somebody who really cares about transforming lives and has cared enough about it to put it down into a book. So I’m sorry, my rant about authors over but I think it’s hard work to put that together. And I don’t think it’s self-serving at all.

Jonathan: Thank you. I will take that to heart. My book is raw, right? So one of the things people like about my book is I say exactly how much of a prick I used to be. I talked about how brutal the industry is in no uncertain terms. And I described step by step how I reinvented myself. And I give you know, we have 15 cooperating principles we built the firm on here at Keyser and I describe how we’ve developed this culture because it’s one thing to say hey, whatever self is culture, it’s a whole other thing. It’s actually know how and so anybody that reads this book will have everything they need to create a selfless culture for their own organization.

Steve: That’s awesome. Well, Jonathan, I know from folks will want to go find your book and find out more about what you’re doing. What’s the best place for them to go and do that?

Jonathan: Ruthless Book. That’s where, that’s the website for the book. The name of the book is You Don’t Have to Be Ruthless to Win and you can get it on, and then through if you’re out there and you’re like, Man,I’m in commercial real estate and I’m sick and tired of being in this ruthless industry and I just heard this guy Jonathan Keyser say, he’s looking to you know, grow a national firm and put you know, offices in all major markets filled with people that believe this stuff, call me I’d love to talk to you.

That’s our corporate website is KEYSER, not the traditional spelling like the hospital but a different one KEYSER, which of course is my last name. But you know, the best place to start for most people is to go to, get a copy of my book. And then through that, we also have set up a vault where we have tons of free resources for people that read the book that they can go and download and utilize for themselves.

So within the book, you’ll also have access to the vault. And then if there’s ways that we can help your organization great. You know, some people say hey, the book was amazing, resources were amazing, I want you to help us we have tons of cool programs from you know, really inexpensive to really intensive on-site. So for anybody who’s really looking to demonstrate with their in their own business and their own industry, that they truly can be successful and have an amazing culture of selfless service, here at Keyser we can help.

Steve: That’s awesome. Well, folks, go get the book. Do yourself a favor and make that small investment and go to and find it there. Jonathan Keyser, thank you so much for spending a little time or I should say investing a little time with me today on the Unstoppable CEO Podcast. It’s been a real pleasure.

Jonathan: My honor. It’s my honor. Thanks for having me.

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