Doug Hall | The Sherpa for Entrepreneurs

Doug Hall believes in entrepreneurship… he believes in entrepreneurs. And with his business, Resources for CEOs, he strives to help them overcome the challenges that are holding them back from getting everything they want out of their business.

It’s not just money. But the freedom to live their life.

We talk about how to get there, including a unique “operating system” for companies that has nothing to do with software… but is so necessary when a business gets more complex as it grows.

Listen in to discover…

  • The value of looking back to where you started
  • The only real reason you’ll actually make significant change
  • The self-imposed limits in processes and mindset you don’t realize you have
  • Creating a shared language for your team
  • And more

Listen now…

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Steve Gordon: Welcome to The Unstoppable CEO Podcast, I’m your host Steve Gordon and I got to tell you I’m super excited today. I’m interviewing one of our clients and he is just a master at guiding leadership teams and privately held businesses. This is going to be really, really impactful if you want to get freedom from your business and create freedom in your life so that the business is your benefactor. Today I’m talking with Doug Hall.

Doug, he’s got a business called Resources for CEOs and he’s a 35-year corporate executive who left Corporate America seven years ago to work with small business owners. Along the way, he discovered something called the entrepreneurial operating system, he is an EOS implementer, he is a guide for leadership teams in small privately held businesses and he’s got some really unique perspectives on how to build out a leadership team in your business to begin to carry the load for the business. So, I’m excited for this conversation. Doug, welcome to The Unstoppable CEO and a great to have you here.

Doug Hall: Thanks Steve, it’s great for me to be here. I’m not only a client but I’m a fan of Unstoppable CEO Podcast and listen all the time, so I’m really honored to be here and, and share some of my story.

Steve Gordon: I’m excited about it because the work that you’re doing I think is truly important and has a huge impact and we’ll get into some of the ways that the work you’re doing with leadership teams really can transform the experience of a business owner within their business. But before we get to all that, give us a little bit of background on you and how you grew into this role of leading leadership teams within small business.

Doug Hall: Yeah, thanks. The interesting thing is that I worked for 35 years in employee leader, VP, director, individual contributor roles, built my career. Quite happy in many cases but there was always a nagging thought in the back of my mind, am I in the right place and am I doing the right thing? The interesting thing is I grew up in an entrepreneurial family with a mom and dad that literally did some mom-and-pop businesses. I saw that, I observed it, I participated, I worked summers through college for one of their businesses, but it didn’t stick with me. I had stars in my eyes, because I wanted to get that brass ring of running $100 million company or whatever was possible.

So, I went for that, entered the computer industry and worked my way up into management and leadership and through sales, sales management, marketing, marketing, management, product management, product roadmaps and strategy, all really intellectually engaging stuff, running teams up to probably a hundred employees at sometimes, but there was always something nagging in the back of my mind. Part of it was, I felt like a little bit of a misfit in that world and I also felt like maybe I wasn’t a very good employee. I was not the most disciplined worker, I had lots of visions, I had lots of ideas, and just seems like they didn’t always resonate with my bosses. It was more like, “Yeah, go back, put your nose to the grindstone and just grind some more buddy.”

That was the background that set the stage for me to be ready to take a package in 2011, exit that world, basically go my own way and build a second career. I did that, and through providential accident, I ended up focusing just myself, no employees focusing on small business, which was what I had worked on for the last five years of my career, basically running channel teams, dealing with lots of partners, partner companies, tars and the computer industry that were smaller businesses. What I saw was I didn’t really want to have a bunch of employees, but I did want to help them, I had a heart for them. That’s what set the stage and that’s where I had to decide how am I going to enter my own career.

There’s a lot of podcasts and stuff out there on people choosing, I didn’t consciously choose. I took the best option and the best option was coaching, running mastermind peer groups and coaching business owners in a group setting and then one on one. I started down that path here in Seattle, greater Seattle area, built a couple of groups, really enjoyed it.

Steve Gordon: I’m with you there, I absolutely love working with business owners and particularly privately held businesses because they have very unique problems and they also have the ability to make decisions and move quickly and so it just makes for a lot of fun. You’ve been building this business now for the last seven years, and I know that that isn’t always an easy thing to do, what are some of the things that you’ve looked towards or some ways of thinking that you’ve used to approach difficulty? When you run into roadblocks and things like that, how do you push past that?

Doug Hall: I think one of the best mindsets that I’ve come across that’s really served me, and it was unconscious for a while and now it’s conscious, is what Dan Solomon talks about the gap and the gain. It’s easy to get frustrated when you’re looking at how much farther you have to go, but it’s really satisfying when you turn around and look back and say, “Wow, I’ve accomplished something, I’ve made progress.” That’s what’s most comforting to me whenever I feel … might get a little down on myself, it’s the look back and say, “Well wow, I did help some people. I did accomplish things. I have made my own way instead of being an employee.” I’m not saying everybody needs to be self-employed, but I’ll tell you this, after about two years out, running peer groups and coaching, I was unemployable, absolutely.

Nobody could have employed me anymore because I had been free, I had been on the outside, I’ve been helped them a bunch of different clients and that just changed my mindset. I keep reminding myself sort of raising the necessity that there’s more business owners to help, stay the course, don’t look at what you haven’t accomplished, look back at what has been accomplished and keep plugging forward.

Steve Gordon: Yeah, I love that way of looking at it. Talk a little bit, explain for folks who maybe don’t understand or haven’t heard of the gap and the gain concept before, tell us what that really is.

Doug Hall: We all … All right, the human mind can’t help but think ahead and compare to what we want and then look at the shortfall in our current life. We look at our current life only fleetingly and are happy or unhappy, satisfied, or unsatisfied, and that whole concept of being unsatisfied I’ll come back to that later, then we look backwards and say, “Wow, was that good or was that not good?” We’re always judging against some paradigm in our mind. The flip in the gap and the gain is to say, look, you got to live in the moment, you can only change right now, you can’t change the past and you can’t change the future and if you’ll look back, look at the good things you’ve done, look at the good accomplishments and learn from the bad, but look at the good that’s been accomplished already in your mission or your cause or your purpose. Then that gives you power to do the right thing now, which will then enable your future.

Steve Gordon: Yeah, absolutely, I think we all tend to. When we’re building businesses, we have this goal in mind, we’re looking out into the future at this next great thing we want to accomplish and it’s always so far away. We rarely will turn around and look backwards to see where we started and the goals that we have achieved up to this point, sort of give ourselves credit for that. It’s so easy just to stay focused on, well, what’s the next thing, and I’m not there yet and so now I feel stressed and sometimes even defeated because it seems like our brain plays this little evil trick sometimes. We accomplish a goal and then we already see the next bigger goal further away and then we feel like, well, we didn’t even get to enjoy the goal we just accomplished.

I love that you brought that up because I think it’s such a simple thing, but it really takes some work. I learned the concept about four or five years ago and it took a little while to re-program myself so that I would think, oh wait, let’s stop, let’s take stock of what we’ve actually accomplished. To me it’s helpful to put it down on paper, look at that. The book’s fantastic, it’s huge.

Doug Hall: Oh yeah. I think the more frequently we can do that … I’m a fan of the weekly review or weekly preview and I’ll make a plug for a book here, Michael Hyatt just put out a new book called Free to Focus and I’m a big fan of his. In that book he’s got a super methodology for a weekly preview, which is a review of last week and a look ahead but the thinking has to be grounded in look at how much I got, look at what good got done last week. Like look at what good got done last year so that you prepare your way forward by looking at what you’ve accomplished.

Steve Gordon: That’s very different than what … Even at that granular level, on a weekly review, most people would look at it and go, look at my to do list and what’s left still to do and the weeks done, it’s a very different mindset. That’s fantastic, I appreciate you sharing that. I want to take a quick break. We’re going to come back with more from Doug and when we come back, we’re going to talk about how he guides leadership teams through what’s called the entrepreneurial operating system and getting that in place and the benefits of having something like that in your business. We’ll be right back with more from Doug Hall.

Hey, welcome back everybody, this is Steve Gordon and today I’m talking with Doug Hall. Doug, I really want to dive into the work you’re doing with leadership teams inside closely held businesses because I know … I mean, having grown one and now building a second one, I know that that dynamic within that leadership team, even if it’s just a couple of people and it’s a fairly small company but more so as it grows, that really can make or break the experience of the entrepreneur that they have in the business. It can either make owning the business really, really difficult and a lot of work and a lot of effort, or it can make it feel really frictionless. Talk to us a little bit from a big picture standpoint, what is it that you … When you go in with a leadership team, what are some of the things that you’re trying to get them to begin thinking about?

Doug Hall: Yeah, great question. Let me take a step back and say, generally speaking we don’t change unless we’re lacking something. If there’s some dissatisfaction or lack of satisfaction, that’s going to cause some pain we’re going to deal with that pain. I will say some of us are very achievement oriented and we may just want to achieve something so it’s not from pain, it’s from running towards something good. Let’s use the 80/20 rule and say, 80% of the time we do something new when it hurts and 20% of the time we do something new when we just want to get better, we all accept that. It starts with the owner of the who is, in this case, the entrepreneur and we like to use that word entrepreneur. The entrepreneur may have a few people around them and have no leadership team or they may have a dozen or more people and has started to appoint managers, put that first level in.

When they get to the point where the two or … and I usually say it takes three people to have a leadership team, my rough rule, because the owner is always a leader and then there’s two other people so they take the three key functions of the business and split them out between the three of them. That’s usually around 12 or 15 employees for most industries, somebody who’s running sales and marketing are the outward view, somebody running operations or service delivery, the inward view, and somebody is keeping everything organized, admin, finance, accounting, payroll, paying the bills, running IT, benefits, it’s all that stuff. You take those three things and that’s the three legged stool of leadership. If you’re not quite there yet, that’s where you’re heading if you’re growing your business, if you’re there or more, you can get to four or five, six, seven people on the leadership team.

In general, what I look for are telltale signs from the owner saying, “Hey, look, I’m not getting everything I want, I don’t have all the freedom I want. I don’t have enough income to hire enough people, I don’t have enough freedom to step away from the business for three weeks, I’m kind of tied to this thing. If I don’t do everything, it doesn’t get done.” Then last but not least, they might say, “I don’t quite have the freedom of purpose. I don’t really feel like I’m doing what I need to do in my life through this business.” Income, time freedom and purpose are the three things that we can get from our business or our business can take those things away. They can take away purpose, they can take away time freedom, they can take us away from our families and loved ones, or they can literally take our money and put us in bankruptcy.

My purpose is to help business owners get what they want in those three areas, not the negatives, get the positives. And I’m not a turnaround guy, I’m working with solid businesses, but usually the owner is able to say, “Hey, we’re stuck. We’re hitting the ceiling, we’re not breaking through.” That’s the telltale I look for so they’re unsatisfied, if you will.

Steve Gordon: I think that’s a good point about not being a turnaround specialist, that this is … in my mind, this is sort of the natural evolution of growing a business. I’ll never forget when we hit 15 employees in my first business, I could not have imagined a more complex organization. It was only 15 people, but what was really easy to run by the seat of your pants at eight or 10 people was a complete nightmare at 15. The same systems no longer worked, the same processes, the same communication just didn’t work as well. Then again, we felt like we hit another ceiling at 25 and so I think you sort of continually … that’s just the normal growth pattern is you grow, you hit the limit of your current systems and thinking and you’ve got to elevate that to the next level.

Doug Hall: Totally, and I saw that with my clients. For three or four years, I’m running groups, I’m coaching one on one, I took from 35 years of working in bigger organizations and brought tools and tricks and ideas to them and that was very satisfying. What was not satisfying, is I still saw them not getting everything they wanted from their business. I saw them taking ideas back to their teams and their teams not being enthusiastic about that and I was like, hmm, something’s missing here. Meeting with a potential client one day, three and a half years ago when we talked about groups and coaching and he was interested, he took the notion to talk about favorite business books. He says, “Hey Doug, what’s your favorite business book?” And I said, well, I don’t know, Michael Gerber’s E‑Myth Revisited and Good to Great by James Collins and whatever.

He said, “Yeah, yeah, those are all great.” He grabs a book off his credenza, sticks it across the desk at my face and says, points to it and says, “This is the best business book I’ve ever read, I’ve read it 10 times.” I looked at him with my eyebrow raised, he says, “Okay, okay. I read it three times and listened to the audible four times.” I kind of like, okay, you still got me here, you’re serious about this book, what is it? I got the book that night, read it, got the first couple of chapters in, and it introduced me to the notion of an operating system in the mind of the entrepreneur and an operating system in a leadership team of a small business. That

just like in a computer, if we just ran all the different programs without having windows or macOS or IOS or Android, if we just ran programs, our computers will go nuts. We’d run out of memory, the programs would crash into each other. The operating system gives disciplines and gives tools to the applications to keep everything organized. Think about as a business owner, you have an operating system in your head, it’s there. You got it by learning and by reading and probably not by going to college, but by going through the school of hard knocks, you’ve assembled a way of operating your business with tools and tricks and whatever in your head. My view is to get more out of your business, you need to upgrade your operating system because it ties right to what Steve, you just said about the complexity from 10 to 15, 15 to 25 employees.

You’ve got to upgrade your operating system, so when I got the notion of the operating system from the book that I just referred to as Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business by Gino Wickman, I read that he said, “Hey guys, I’ve assembled an operating system. I’ve taken all the common business management tools that you all know about, strategic plans and to-do lists and accountability and vision and purpose statements and all that stuff we all know about.” What Gino did is pulled it into a holistic system, so to me, an organizational operating system is what we have to have in our head. We have to have tools on the desk, we have to teach it and share it with our people and there’s more than one out there but my favorite is the entrepreneurial operating system that Gino described in the book Traction.

To me it’s about harnessing human energy, any human team will do better if you allocate resources, make decisions better. In other words, getting on the same vision as to where we’re going, how we’re going to get there, get the right people on the team and in the right seats, build a healthy organization and get the right stuff done. If we have a shared vision, but we’re not getting the stuff done, we’re not going to get to the vision. We need discipline, we need accountability so that we’re all pulling in the same direction. Then in a great team, I’ll up Patrick Lencioni, a great team is built on trust and trust gets better and isn’t it a lot more fun to work in an environment where people trust you and you trust them?

So healthy organization, great vision, great people pulling in the same direction, that’s what … The EOS has an operating system, that’s what I get to guide people through. I’m like a Sherpa guiding them up the mountain, I’ve been up and down the mountain before. I can’t do the hike for them, they have to do it, but I can show them a path and help teach them the tools and keep them from falling in the crevasse or falling off a cliff and sometimes if they slip, we got them on a rope, we got to stop them and help them get back up. It’s tremendously rewarding work to teach and organizational operating systems people and then see the results they get from it.

Steve Gordon: Yeah, I can imagine. Let’s break this down and make it practical for folks so if they haven’t read Traction, they understand what we’re talking about. If you haven’t read it, go get the book. I would concur with that CEO that you were talking to, I think at this stage I’ve probably gone through it five times between the audio and the book and I keep it on the credenza behind me and I refer to it all the time.

Doug Hall: There you go.

Steve Gordon: For anyone running a growing company, it gives you a way to bring your people in and have a really specific shared language around where you’re going, around what needs to be done over the next 90 days to take the next step towards where you’re going and honestly, one of the most powerful parts of the whole thing is going through the process described in the book, of sitting down and organizing all of the roles within the organization and figuring out what roles you have, whether that aligns with your organizational chart or not but what roles are there, what work is being done and then figuring out who’s doing it. So much clarity comes from these few little simple things. If we were to guide someone through who hadn’t heard of EOS before, where would you begin explaining it to them?

Doug Hall: I think the first thing people need to do, they need to decide, “Am I really satisfied or not?” I’d say most business owners would say, “Well, I’m never satisfied.” That’s not the point, are you unsatisfied enough to do something about it, to even read a book or call me or something and hear about something? Again, I’m not trying to get people to hire me, that’s not the point. In fact, we believe there’s over 60,000 businesses around the world using Traction, using the EOS system. Nine out of 10 of them do it themselves, one out of 10 hire one of us, and I’m among 270 colleagues. I’ve got folks around the world in a network where we’re helping businesses everywhere, but not everybody needs a guide or a Sherpa to climb the mountain, maybe they want to do it themselves, that’s okay. The point is you have to want something more and to get more, you have to do something different.

Rather than talk about the system a lot, let me talk about the six transformations that I see possible. The first is get all your people on a shared vision. Folks they can’t read your mind. You have to share your vision in an organized way and not just blabbing about it, but getting it out in an organized, concise, crisp, you don’t forget, and it’s not oral history, it’s written down. Getting people on a shared vision, getting people the right people in the right seats creates a great team of great people. That’s the second transformation and that’s amazing when you’ve got great people around you that really fit you. The third thing is hitting the right numbers. What are the right numbers, are you hitting them? It’s not just your sales and your profit, that’s the rear view mirror. What are you looking at every day, what are the leading indicators? That’s what we focus on.

What’s happening where your human effort as a team, you guys can do things differently to hit the right numbers so that you get the financial results. When you get the great people, when you get a shared vision as to where you’re going, how you’re going to get there, great people on a great team and hitting the right numbers, you get this transparent clarity in business and all of a sudden the real issues start coming up and you realize, wow, we’re not solving issues. Were just talking about things when we’re going back making the same mistakes over and over. Solving real issues is the fourth transformation, it’s an effective way, as a leadership team and down through we need to release all of these issues, put them away, put them behind you once and for all.

That enables the fifth transformation, which is predictable execution. When you get your processes down and you get them followed by everybody, you get predictable execution. Your customers get what they expect, you set their expectation, you deliver or over deliver. That’s a wonderful place to be and when you’re at predictable execution with the right people in the right seats and you don’t have to do something every day, now you’ve got freedom. You don’t have to be at the business every day, you can hit into what we’d call the self-managing business, where you go from entrepreneur driven to employee driven business, which is a great place to be. The acid test question I ask there is what if you want to wait for three weeks and you can only get one email a week, could the business run?

You only get the hitting the right numbers email, it’s like are we hitting the right numbers and that’s all you get for three weeks. Most entrepreneurs say, “No, I can’t go away for three weeks. I can go away for the week, a week, then the wheels are falling off.” My encouragement to folks is raise your sights, it can be done, I’ve seen it. Last but not least, traction is all about getting the right entrepreneur driven tool to an employee driven company, are we putting the right systems in place? That’s getting the right stuff done because things aren’t always get done automatically, you have to be purposeful and thoughtful and staying together and moving together as a team is really important. Those six transformations to me are what enable business owners to build that self-managing company really move forward and get what they want out of business.

Steve Gordon: Yeah, and they fit together so nicely within the system and really support one another. As a business owner is approaching this and they’ve said, “Okay, yeah, I’m ready. I know I need to make this change and the business has got more potential than where we can go the way that  we’re operating right now,” where do you begin with them?

Doug Hall: First of all, they have to hear about this notion of an organizational operating system and is it out there. I will say there’s more choices than EOS, but I believe EOS is absolutely top of the class. I would point them to, to every sources to get their head around this, my own website is, an S on the end of resource and an S on the CEOs. I don’t explain all the background there, I talk about sort of the three situations where business owners can be, sort of they’ve already thought about EOS Traction and they want to know their options for implementing, that’s one part, they’re frustrated with where they are and maybe either exiting their business already and they’re not really comfortable with the valuation they’re going to get from their business. Then the other is, what does this EOS thing all about? You can find my contact information there, get this some download data.

I’d also point you to which is where all the downloadable resources are, the first intro in chapter one of the Traction book are there for download. You can always get ahold of me at and I can get that to you. But basically I want to have you learn a little bit and however you learn, Steve, you said you can get the book, you can get Traction as an audible or as a book or on Kindle, but you don’t even need to get the whole traction book. If you just got the intro in chapter one off the website or I could email it to you, be happy to do that, but start learning, start thinking, decide if you’re satisfied or not. If you’re satisfied with what you’re getting from your business, then good for you, keep doing what you’re doing. If you’re unsatisfied, think about doing something in this operating system idea is working four tens of thousands of businesses around the world.

Steve Gordon: Yeah, certainly is. I think that the difficult thing with the promise of EOS is that … We’ve all heard this as business owners, do this and get free and get your business to where it will manage itself and all of those sorts of things and often those promises I think are shallow, there’s nothing behind them. I can tell you what I’ve found in our own work with EOS and implementing it in our own business, is that it very quickly, and we’re a small team, it very quickly got us working in and thinking in lockstep and it gave us a way to stop the spin. You mentioned a couple of minutes ago the idea that in a lot of businesses you’ve got all these issues and you’ve got these problems and things keep popping up and you feel like you … Sometimes you just talk them to death, but nothing ever really changes.

One of the things that I love and EOS is that there’s just this really elegant way of capturing all of those issues and then digesting them in a way that you can actually get stuff done instead of just talking them to death, where you begin to make progress. Tying back into what you shared in the first part of the interview, one of the biggest things that we’ve seen is that it now gives us a way to really say … to look back and go, look what we got done last week, you know, and here was our goal, look what we got done, look how much progress we’ve made and it’s allowed us to really put blinders on two things that, they’re not in our 90-day-plan.

They’re out there and they have some importance, but they’re not in our 90-day-plan and so if they don’t get done, it’s okay. It’s just this tremendous focus that I think having tried a lot of different approaches before, I remember going way back and I read Gerber’s book and it’s a great book, but there’s always been this gap between where all of these things promised to sort of simplify the running of a business. It’s like they … you stand on the edge of the Grand Canyon and they’d point over to how wonderful it is on the other side, but they didn’t have a bridge.

Doug Hall: Exactly.

Steve Gordon: For me for the first time, EOS is the bridge and it actually does it. It does the job.

Doug Hall: I think a lot of the books out there are encouraging to us and help us with mindset and might give us one key idea, but a bunch of isolated key ideas don’t assist to make. EOS is simple but not easy, and I encourage people to learn. Also, I encourage people that … One of the things I loved three and a half, almost four years ago when it found me, is there are thousands of businesses implementing on their own and a do it yourself mode and they start with a 12 or $13 book from Amazon and download things from the website. By the way, clear to the readers, just skip to chapter 10 and look at that because you don’t implement in the order Gino wrote the book so skip to chapter 10 and read that and then back up. I can help you with this, whether you, whether you hire me or one of my colleagues are not as not the point. It’s are you getting what you want from your business and are you going to do something different to get it, kind of to Steve’s point.

I’ve been encouraging Steve to self-implement, that’s totally great. I’m working … cooking up a little plan in the background for people we call folks self-implementers when they’re doing their own hike, their own journey, and I’ve got some ideas to help people above just the $12 book but short of hiring a professional certified implementer like me to come in, which is a pretty big time commitment and a sizable investment. The point is, what I love is EOS is accessible to any sized business. It doesn’t require a buy in, it doesn’t require signing up for something where you get dinged every month, you can approach it from wherever. In fact, I can tell you enough on the phone to point you in the right direction, and happy to do that.

My purpose is to help a thousand business owners get what they want out of their business in the next 10 years and I’m a year into that. I got nine more years, I got to get busy and clearly a lot of … I can’t help everybody one on one so I’m encouraging you now to get together, get back to me and let me put you on my list of a thousand so that I can say, “Yeah, I helped this guy, I helped this girl get what they want.” It just jazzes me.

Steve Gordon: Let’s talk about when an implementer makes sense and I know you’re working on putting something together where smaller businesses can go through this and smaller leadership teams can go through it in more of a group setting, where do you think that that dividing line makes sense? Because I’m sure for businesses of a certain size, you don’t want to be in that group. You want somebody dedicated, your leadership team’s big enough, you sort of need … they need you to come in and work with them, where does that demarcation happen?

Doug Hall: There’s no automatic line. Let me say that what I see leadership teams is if there’s enough ambition or enough lack of satisfaction, then an investment of six days in year one offsite, six full eight hour days, 48 hours offsite working on the business, that’s the number one investment. If you can’t get away from the business, if you don’t have leaders to get away from the business for six whole days in year one, and then on a recurring basis, it’s every 90 days a day off site for strategy session, two days for annual session. If you can’t afford that time, that’s okay, you can still work on EOS in smaller chunks but with an implementer like me, we’re going to go offsite for a whole day. Generally I’d say if you have two other leaders plus yourself, that’s a good level.

I don’t care how many employees you have, if you have yourself and two other leaders that can think at your level and you can go off site for a whole day, then you can afford the time and you can afford the budget, the expense to me. Not a big investment, it’s less than $40,000 in year one and probably by the end of year two you’re off on your own. Again, it’s a sizeable chunk of money, it’s a sizable chunk of time but I don’t want that to frustrate people because tens of thousands of businesses are doing this on their own too. Some people start on their own and then they upgrade and get an implementer to help them later, what I bring to the table is the ability to teach the material, the ability to facilitate your team, again, if it’s just you, you’re not a team, but if it’s three of you, there’s a team dynamic there so a third party facilitator brings great value.

Then last but not least, the ability to coach. Tiger Woods just won the Masters, he doesn’t coach his own swing somebody watches him. They’re not better than he is, they’re just watching and they have an eye to tell, “Hey Tiger, try this.” Sort of the Butch Harmon advising Tiger, even though he’s not his coach now, but you get the idea. Teaching, facilitating and coaching are the three things that a third party can bring you. Otherwise, there’s nothing wrong, you can’t hurt yourself by doing it yourself and that’s a great way to get started. I think the point here is you have options.

Steve Gordon: That’s one of the … I think one of the powerful things about this approach and this system. I encourage those of you who are listening who have a team, regardless of the size of the team, if you have a team, this is probably something you want to begin looking at and begin understanding. If you’ve got 10 to 20 people, and I know a lot of folks listening are in that range or larger, then you’d be crazy not to go get the Traction book if you haven’t heard of it already. If you haven’t heard of it, I’d honestly be surprised because I’d heard of it a number of times before I actually picked up a copy and actually read it. Honestly, I read it and thought, wow, this is really great, but I felt like we were too small at the time to really make any use of it.

We’ve grown since then so I’ve gone back to it but I encourage you to dive into it, and then I encourage you to reach out. If you’ve got to a team of a reasonable size, I think it makes sense to have somebody come in and at least find out about the options for having somebody guide you through it.

Doug Hall: Steve, let me interject that, myself and all my colleagues around the world, we’ve signed up with EOS worldwide and collectively we’re all members of the EOS worldwide system. We all commit to be able to invest 90 minutes with any leadership team just upon request, without pre-qualifying you. If you want 90 minutes of our time, you just have to ask, that’s our give back to the world. We’ll do that on a zoom meeting or we’ll do it face to face, I can help arrange somebody for you anywhere in the world, pretty much anywhere in the world, we’ve got implementers on most of the continents. It’s just an opportunity for to investigate, we don’t judge you if you drop back and say, “Hey, I got it. I’m going to do it on my own.” Great, do it on your own, if you need a little bit of help, I’m a phone call away.

Steve Gordon: Just the way that, that you guys have set that up and the way that you all approach it, I think is really refreshing. Doug, tell everybody again where they can find out more about you and the work you’re doing.

Doug Hall: The backdrop is, my world starts at Happy to hear from you, drop me … My contact information’s on there, you can find me on LinkedIn, I’m Douglas Sam Hall in Seattle, that guy. Happy to hear from you, happy to guide you in whatever part of your journey you’re on and if this podcast starts you on a journey with your operating system, please drop me a note. I’d love to add you as a tick mark to my thousand list saying, “Yep, I helped that business owner get closer to what he or she wanted.” So, let me know.

Steve Gordon: Awesome. Well, thanks again, Doug. It’s been a been great to really understand EOS a little bit better and understand what you’re doing, and appreciate you investing some time with me.

Doug Hall: Thanks Steve. It’s great and best success with Unstoppable CEO. You got a great podcasts going on here and I’m honored to be a part of it.

Steve Gordon: Thanks so much.